Failed loops - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2016, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Failed loops

Here are some really bad loops, followed by a decent one.
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... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2016, 03:52 PM
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You have began Creeping and it cause a tailing loop and the TL cause a collision between fly and rod legs of line loop. You have not Creeped on your previous videos. The only good solution is to Drift. Another is to cast lighter line or use stiffer rod but Drifting is the best casting trick to increase casting distance and Drifting cures Creeping. On third cast there is no collision obviously because you delay forward stop which lowers the rod leg.

Esa
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2016, 04:02 PM
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Actually there is not much possibility to Drift anymore when you finish the back cast low. Just hold the rod still while the D-loop forms but myself I try to Drift because it makes Creeping impossible. I address that your Creep js not too bad at all. I know this because Creeping is the problem I have the most

The anchor is not on wiew and on first and second cast there is a possibility that it is bit too long and holds so well that it cause the rod bend too much which cause the TL? IMHO you use your both hands just righ for that forward casting stroke

Esa
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2016, 06:17 PM
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From what I can see, with the first two casts you are applying power too early in the forward stroke, thereby causing the tailing loop, rather than accelerating to an abrupt stop. Think of it as slow medIUM FAST..STOP! Watch the third cast closely and you will see that you have applied power later in the forward stroke resulting in a pretty sweet cast.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2016, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, that's great stuff!

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-25-2016, 05:15 AM
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I like the work you do and have done in your blog and videos especially the slow motion are very good material to study. Particularly this last one because understanding faults is a good way to improve casting. Like I wrote it might be the anchor which leads to the tailing loop but it does not show here. I hope you understand that there easily comes more discussion of "negatives" but your casting already is very good.

Esa
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-25-2016, 03:44 PM
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Hi SM,

The first 2 casts have too much line stick.
Lift higher in your backcast and begin your forward cast sooner, almost as the line/leader is falling to the water.
This partly what you've achieved in cast #3, along with the lower stop point that Bender has pointed out - a longer, smoother power application.

How long is the head/line you're casting and what rod are you casting with?

Keep at it! Your videos prove the value of them when you can really consider what you're doing in your casting.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-25-2016, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bender View Post
I like the work you do and have done in your blog and videos especially the slow motion are very good material to study. Particularly this last one because understanding faults is a good way to improve casting. Like I wrote it might be the anchor which leads to the tailing loop but it does not show here. I hope you understand that there easily comes more discussion of "negatives" but your casting already is very good.

Esa
Thanks Esa, I appreciate your comments and point of view, thanks for watching! Glad you are enjoying them.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 12:07 AM Thread Starter
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Rod and line

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Originally Posted by tackleman View Post
Hi SM,

The first 2 casts have too much line stick.
Lift higher in your backcast and begin your forward cast sooner, almost as the line/leader is falling to the water.
This partly what you've achieved in cast #3, along with the lower stop point that Bender has pointed out - a longer, smoother power application.

How long is the head/line you're casting and what rod are you casting with?

Keep at it! Your videos prove the value of them when you can really consider what you're doing in your casting.
Thanks Tackleman. The rod is a Sage Method 7126-4 and the line is an Airflo Rage of 450 with a floating polyleader. The line feels very heavy on the rod for touch and go casting but Rio Recommends it.

But it does exploit my tendency to miss time the cast sometimes. I returned the rod to the owner and hope to do some videos with lighter lines soon. Thank you for your comments. This is fun and informative.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by klink View Post
From what I can see, with the first two casts you are applying power too early in the forward stroke, thereby causing the tailing loop, rather than accelerating to an abrupt stop. Think of it as slow medIUM STOP! Watch the third cast closely and you will see that you have applied power later in the forward stroke resulting in a pretty sweet cast.
Thanks Klink, I had a little time to re read the posts and this one is helpful, glad you commented.
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... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 12:59 AM Thread Starter
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Creep and drift

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Originally Posted by bender View Post
You have began Creeping and it cause a tailing loop and the TL cause a collision between fly and rod legs of line loop. You have not Creeped on your previous videos. The only good solution is to Drift. Another is to cast lighter line or use stiffer rod but Drifting is the best casting trick to increase casting distance and Drifting cures Creeping. On third cast there is no collision obviously because you delay forward stop which lowers the rod leg.

Esa
our talk of creep and drift reminded me of this http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/5...ing-creep.html
Particularly the post by Johncke. I have learned a ton from reading his posts throughout the years and putting them into practice. Thanks Johncke

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 03:16 AM
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Yes than thread and Johncke post might have been what made me understand what was causing one of my biggest DH casting promlem. I believe I becan Creeping when I bought a Skagit line and Skagit Master DVD Another problem which I think came from a "Scandi spey dynamic back cast" is a Tracking fault for overhead casting as I tend to cast back cast to the right

Esa
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klink View Post
From what I can see, with the first two casts you are applying power too early in the forward stroke, thereby causing the tailing loop, rather than accelerating to an abrupt stop. Think of it as slow medIUM STOP! Watch the third cast closely and you will see that you have applied power later in the forward stroke resulting in a pretty sweet cast.
This is at the heart of the "bad" casts that you experienced. If you look at the first cast in the sequence note your body positioning as you begin the lift and sweep with your shoulders hunched over with the impression that you are going to give it all you've got. At the beginning of the forward cast the power application is enough to actually push your shoulders back against the effort. There is an immediate crossing of the fly leg over the rod leg of your loop creating the tailing loop which is already the beginning of the final tangle. Instead of the the effort which pushes your body back you should actually be moving from your back foot to the forward right foot to enhance a smooth application of power. This allows moving the entire rod forward without rotation until the last part of the forward cast. The "swoosh" which you hear is a sign of too early rotation of the rod. Smooth application with forward movement of the entire rod by body rotation and weight shift before making the final powered rotation should be nearly silent.
Notice also on the last cast that your anchor is more in front of you which helps to create a more dynamic D-loop which then makes the forward cast almost effortless.
Just a couple of observations which I hope may help.
Cheers,
Gary..
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