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  #1  
Old 03-07-2013, 03:17 AM
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klickrolf klickrolf is online now
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Standard vs. Large arbor reels?

We all know the advantages of large arbor reels. Trouble for me is I really enjoy not being able to keep up with a hot steelhead. Many times I've had hooked fish clearing air upstream of me while my line is down river. I love this sort of dis-connection. It's a challenge and a thrill. Non-multipliers, whether large or standard arbor are what we use to bring the line in. Bought a Loop "Big" a few months ago and it's 5" in diameter and will take in nearly a foot of line with each revolution. But in reality I'm wondering about the cost/benefit ratio. Is it more enjoyable to bring in line quickly or race with an old standard arbor setup. That dis-connect is one of the things I enjoy most about flyfishing.
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  #2  
Old 03-07-2013, 04:16 AM
foreach71 foreach71 is offline
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Retrieval speed ratio is function of reel diameter, LA is just a marketing word.
5" vs 4" vs 3" , bigger is better

LA spool sacrifice inner diameter for capacity, that's why LA reels must have bigger outer diameter to keep up with capacity thing
also, 5" std spool would be too heavy, than's why most big diameter reels have LA design.

4" LA reel doesn't have advantage over std reel of equal outer diameter , beside less space for backing , in my opinion
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:53 AM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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Think '71's pretty much got it nailed down.

Larger reel to balance rod, or you need space for a 2hander line (they are chunky size wise).

Thing I've never gotten my head around (large list there) is why all the metal is being cut away so the darned thing looks 'cool.'

With many 2handers "Les Ismore" is not a good thing?
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:58 AM
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Yeah, seems a 4" reel, if it's large arbor it'll hold alot less backing. So why are large arbors so popular? There really isn't any advantage to large arbors unless you don't want to hold as much backing.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:12 AM
FKrow FKrow is offline
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Large arbor = more aluminum on the shop floor than in the reel. They have gone to extremes with the porting. Some fly shops are reporting the spools distort when initial fill of backing is loaded.
It is marketing hype for the big game salt water FF. In addition, the drag is sooo important to this type of fishing. In the fly shops, the customers crank up the drag and unwind the reel by hand,,, wow check out that drag.

I search for older discontined reels with standard arbors for my spey rods.
Older Abels (Big Game std. arbor) and others of similar design are well made and balance the rod better.

Regards,
FK
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:41 AM
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If you want a disconnect with a larger diameter reel, then just reel slowly. A recent fish came upstream so fast that I couldn't keep pace even though I was stripping line by hand as fast as I could muster. I'd much rather have the fish on the reel so that I can hear it sing on the next run, but not going to strap a hubcap to my rod to do it!
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FKrow View Post
Large arbor = more aluminum on the shop floor than in the reel. They have gone to extremes with the porting. Some fly shops are reporting the spools distort when initial fill of backing is loaded.
Regards,
FK
So which spools are distorting when you load the backing?.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:56 PM
MReber MReber is offline
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Speed of line retrieval, "consistant drag", line capacity, etc. only mean something to an extent. If a fish wants to kick my butt it likely will and at that point there ain't much the gear is going to do to in my favor. Good hook penetration and heavy enough leader/tippet are at that point the only thing really in my favor........that's just my opinion. I do like large arbors if for nothing else keeping the line coils larger and less springy. Again my opinion.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:27 PM
Steel Will Steel Will is offline
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Personally, I've settled on standard arbor reels with no drag system (click and pawl). I don't want any unfair advantage because part of the thrill for me is the uncertainty of whether you'll actually land the fish when you do hook one. If the fish kicks my ass, then so be it.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:11 AM
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Johncke Johncke is offline
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I think it is a very interesting discussing the pro and cons of LA reels as opposed to conventional non LA reels. The original reason for the LA reels was to protect the finest tippets from the start up inertia which could be a parameter to be reckoned with when fishing the smallest of dry flies and ultra thin tippets on conventional reels.

Speed of retrieval was later used as a selling point when fishing for the true speedsters like YFT (yellow fin tuna) etc in the salt, where you often need to be able to crank some line on the reel very fast. For this the diameter of the reel really need to be very large, IMO at least around 5’ to really be felt, especially if you also need to have the backing required to battle these speedsters. Reels in that size will inevitable be heavy, unless you have them made out of exotic material like titanium, which requires very expensive tools in the manufacturing process and cost almost as much as gold, leading to exorbitant price tags or, when not using exotic materials, the need to limit the weight often leads to structural stressed designs with extremely ported spools and frames exposing the finer mechanical parts to the elements, with all the implications of diminished strength and durability.

I have a Hardy Zane that I like because it balances some of my rods really well and have a very fine brake, however the bearings used on this SW reel is very exposed and sooner or later you will have to change the bearings from the original to a better quality encapsulated SKF bearings, no matter how carefully you rinse the reel after use.

Very few have addressed this problem with elegance, the most prominent being the late Jack Charlton with his 8450 C and 8550 C series with different sizes of spools to the same reel frame with ultra smooth and powerful brakes capable of stopping anything from a 1 lbs trout caught on very fine tippets all the way to YFT.

For average Salmon/Steelhead fishing I have never felt the need for anything other than moderately sized 3’ – 4’ conventional arbor reels which can be very difficult to find in good quality if you want a modern reel. I think one of the reasons that old Hardy reels are so treasured is the lack of contemporary non custom conventional non LA reels of good quality at an affordable prize.

Personally I make do with old Hardy reels, Saracione, Charlton and the Tibor reels like the Billy Pate and Tibor series, the latter with very moderate LA and a very fine balance between overall quality, LA configuration, weight and size. But I do think there is a general lack of non custom contemporary moderately priced conventional arbor reels.

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Last edited by Johncke; 03-08-2013 at 08:53 PM. Reason: spelling #@?!
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  #11  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:56 AM
DAnderson DAnderson is offline
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Large vs. Std. Arbors

I agree with FKrow about the quality in the older Abel Big Game reels. I have an Abel #3 Big Game that is used for 7/8 spey lines. It has a good balance weight at ~10 oz. without backing or line. The downside is a limited backing capacity and you are relegated to either GelSpun or a reduced amount of 30# dacron. I recently picked up an older Abel #4 Big Game standard arbor. This reel has the same spool diameter as the #3, but a wider spool and a weight of ~12 oz.

All of the comments about the large arbor spools having limited backing capacity are true for reasonable sized reels (dia. ~ 4 to 4.5"). The whole issue is about volume available for line and backing. If you have a reel that has adequate capacity, you should calculate the volume in cubic inches or cubic millimeters. Compare the calculated volume with that of your future reel purchases. It requires asking about arbor and reel inner rim diameters along with the distance between the spool flanges. A simple spread sheet will record many of the reels that you are interested in purchasing as compared to your known capacity. The weight should be included with the volume capacity figures to be sure you have the balance issue addressed.

Doug
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:43 PM
FKrow FKrow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey Dick View Post
So which spools are distorting when you load the backing?.
Rather not say on a public forum.

Ask any of the fly shops that set up big game saltwater reels. Naturally it depends upon how much tension is set on the backing unwinder arrangement.

Regards,
FK
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klickrolf View Post
We all know the advantages of large arbor reels. Trouble for me is I really enjoy not being able to keep up with a hot steelhead. Many times I've had hooked fish clearing air upstream of me while my line is down river. I love this sort of dis-connection. It's a challenge and a thrill. Non-multipliers, whether large or standard arbor are what we use to bring the line in. Bought a Loop "Big" a few months ago and it's 5" in diameter and will take in nearly a foot of line with each revolution. But in reality I'm wondering about the cost/benefit ratio. Is it more enjoyable to bring in line quickly or race with an old standard arbor setup. That dis-connect is one of the things I enjoy most about flyfishing.
It's all about personal preference! I think guys like myself love that look of the large-arbor reel, but also love the feeling of not being able to keep up with a steelhead or other fish that makes fast, hard runs. I've been broken off a few times because I can't get my fly line out of the deep water fast enough, and they make a huge bow in the line, then come to the surface real fast, jump out of the water while all of my fly line is submerged...then jump and snap the line. I've even had it happen with smaller fish while I'm stripping line in with my hand and walking backwards after the hookset, sometimes theres nothing you can really do regardless of gear. When a fish manhandles me like that and I lose it, I appreciate fishing that much more.
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  #14  
Old 03-09-2013, 02:24 AM
jabster jabster is offline
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It is very suprising to hear that most of you don't like large arbor reels. I personally don't like many things on standard arbor reels and I'm a big fan of the mid-large arbor concept.
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