What is a Poly Leader - Spey Pages
Spey Pages    

Home | Sponsors | Spey Clave



Go Back   Spey Pages > Spey Clave Casting Forums > Tackle
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Gallery Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-21-2010, 06:04 AM
Trekker's Avatar
Trekker Trekker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The West Side
Posts: 148
What is a Poly Leader

I see alot of people mentioning "poly leaders" on here. Can somebody give me a definition of this term, and what they are used for.

Thanks.
__________________
"Once I made you rich enough......rich enough to forget my name"
The Boss
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 03-21-2010, 07:23 AM
Fishpaul Fishpaul is offline
FlyMeARiver
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salmon River NY
Posts: 36
Scientific Anglers, Rio and others make them. They are, essentially, tapered, clear intermediate sinking sink tips to which you attach your tippit material.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-21-2010, 07:46 AM
Speyducer's Avatar
Speyducer Speyducer is online now
Released to spawn
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Scotland, BC, Norway, Russia - anywhere with fish!
Posts: 3,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishpaul View Post
Scientific Anglers, Rio and others make them. They are, essentially, tapered, clear intermediate sinking sink tips to which you attach your tippit material.
Not strictly true!

Polyleaders, from whatever company, are an intermediate form between a tapered mono leader and a fly line tip.

Polyleaders are usually untapered mono cored, with a tapered weighted coating and range from floating (truly a tapered mono leader only with no coating!), right through the range of sink-rates from slow-intermediate, intermediate, sinking, fast sinking and super or ultra-fast sinking.

Most polyleaders come looped at the fatter rear (fly-line) end, and have an exposed (uncoated) lenght of the mono core at the fly end, which you may then tie a loop in so that you can loop-to-loop attach you leader material to, or you can use a fine metal rig-ring to tie to the end of the mono of the polyleader, and then tie your leader material to the other side of the rig-ring. You can also, if you wish, do a usual connector knot between the exposed mono core end of the polyleader direct to your leader material.

The purpose of poly leaders, taking the UK 'by storm' (aka it's almost a "crime" to NOT use one!! ), is to more gently transition between the end of your fly line and your leader proper.

How ever DID we manage to fish at all before these companies decided to charge us £5+ per 5 yards (or less) of such materials??

There is also much chatter about 'better turnover' of flies, and the vociferous aficionados would have us believe in these bits of kit so much so, that anglers are almost encouraged to chop the fine ends off their otherwise good fly lines in order to squeeze one of the indispensible polyleaders on the end so that you can "fish properly".

I don't use polyleaders ... did you guess that????

Mike
__________________
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles (spey rods). Doug Larson

Take only photographs, retain only memories, leave only a good impression of yourself, perhaps just footprints.

Your lines, your rivers, your way!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-21-2010, 08:29 AM
Bob Pauli Bob Pauli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: GGACC to the Aleutians
Posts: 2,105
Poly leaders are a tapered fly line tip/leader. If your fly line is of insufficient length, weight or density (i.e. you purchased the wrong fly line), a poly leader may be helpful. If your leader does not turn over the fly in the manner you desire, and changing the mono leader diameters and length does not correct the situation, you might consider a Poly leader.

If you want a sink tip in which the butt sinks at twice the speed of the tip you might want a Poly leader.

If you are interested in the scientifically determined performance of Poly leaders in water, the following is a must read:

http://flyfishingresearch.net/calcem...dsinktips.html

To quote from FFR, "Overall, tapered tips make the most sense when fishing your fly at or near the surface -- when nice casting turnover of the fly is highly desirable and fly sink time is unimportant. In contrast, if you want your sink tip to help you to get your fly down quickly (or if you prefer to cast a weighted fly), level tips like LC-13 or T-14 are likely better."
__________________
Support Spey O Rama by joining GGACC (San Francisco's Golden Gate Angling & Casting Club) at http://www.ggacc.org/p/p.aspx?mlid=6.

http://flyfishingresearch.net/ for science based information on fly fishing.

Last edited by Bob Pauli; 03-21-2010 at 01:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-21-2010, 02:02 PM
Grampa Spey Grampa Spey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Putah Creek, N. Kali and S. Oregon
Posts: 2,104
To: Bob Pauli, my mentor and Gedi Master with two handed rods, a ?

Old great master caster, mentor and teacher, Old Grasshopper has a question.

I use the Versi Leaders fast sink to get deep.

Did you and your fellow Engineer Gnomes measure how fast the Versi Leaders sink versus T14/T8/T14 in fast moving water, not slow moving water, or in a swimming pool. Or is it possible to do that in a fast river like the Sacramento?

The reason for the question is: When Shad fishing in fast moving water on the Sac or American with the fast sink Versi Leaders 15'/12'. I seem to get to fishing depth as fast as the guys with the 15' tips or T14 and catch about as many Shad as the T chunkers and regular 15' Rio tip chunkers do.

Thank you Gedi Master Caster.
__________________
Dave
Speyclave Contributor
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-22-2010, 02:38 PM
JDJones's Avatar
JDJones JDJones is offline
JD
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Rogue River State of Jefferson
Posts: 2,405
Talking Spey casting is not spey fishing

Ha, ha. Grampa Spey, I've said it before, one who knows how to work the line once it is on the water, can sometimes acheive greater depth with T-8 (or in your case, a versi leader) than one who does not is able to acheive even using T-14. While this may seem to come off like I'm some kind of pompas a$$ know it all, let me be the first to admit otherwise. No way have I got it all figured out yet. But I have (finally) come to the realization that there is more to swimming a fly than just chucking it out there and letting the current drag it back across the river.
__________________
I fish because the voices inside my head tell me to.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-22-2010, 08:01 PM
Grampa Spey Grampa Spey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Putah Creek, N. Kali and S. Oregon
Posts: 2,104
I'm in total agreement with you JD

For me it is a continual learning experience. Also, what may have worked the day before, might not work today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDJones View Post
Ha, ha. Grampa Spey, I've said it before, one who knows how to work the line once it is on the water, can sometimes acheive greater depth with T-8 (or in your case, a versi leader) than one who does not is able to acheive even using T-14. While this may seem to come off like I'm some kind of pompas a$$ know it all, let me be the first to admit otherwise. No way have I got it all figured out yet. But I have (finally) come to the realization that there is more to swimming a fly than just chucking it out there and letting the current drag it back across the river.
__________________
Dave
Speyclave Contributor
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-24-2010, 10:51 AM
Bill_I
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Bob P. - As much as I respect your thoughts and enjoy the Fly Fishing Research Website, it’s somewhat contradicting, on this subject.

With a un-weighted very bouyant plastic tube it shows this-
" VersiLeader 7 ips 15' goes deepest. It is equivalent to using 13.5' of LC-13 or T-14.
VersiLeader 5.6 ips and PolyLeader "Extra Super Fast Sinking" are similar. Both are equivalent to using about 10' of LC-13 or T-14."


Which to me is very impressive on the Versa leaders end, all things considered.

Yet, then it states this after the "research" -
"Overall, tapered tips make the most sense when fishing your fly at or near the surface -- when nice casting turnover of the fly is highly desirable and fly sink time is unimportant. In contrast, if you want your sink tip to help you to get your fly down quickly (or if you prefer to cast a weighted fly), level tips like LC-13 or T-14 are likely better "

It also talks about the un-desirable "U" with a un-weighted plastic tube but, in my experiance, even straight / level T tips can have a "U" with such a bouyant fly as a un-weighted plastic tube.

Also it states this -
"Separately, we tried a weighted fly (with 1/30 oz lead eyes). This was easier to cast with a level sink tip than a tapered one and, in both cases, sank at about the same rate as the reverse set up."
I should point out for the record that extra small lead eyes are 1/50 oz. and small 1/36 oz. So these are mild lead eyes as medium lead eyes are 16 grains - 1/24 oz.

Point is with a slightly weighted fly or a fly that sinks well it appears the poly per "research" sinks at a rate as claimed and I think most use such with poly when attempting depth and they do turn it over well. Maybe not quite as well or large as a straight T tip but very close as the butt sections on the Poly are greater diameter than the straight T tips though they taper.

Personally, as I fish a lot of 12 grain "half incher" brass tubes off them but, even with smaller tung. bead head buggers and such I note in actual river fishing that in particular the shorter 6' & 10' Versa Leader 7.0 inch per second with less taper than the 15'ers gets down very simular to T8 and weights (actual grain scale weight) very simular to T8 in those lengths. I do feel it (sink rate) drops off fast after the Rio Versa 5.6" and for the 7.0 one may need to nip back the tip to handle them (except Skagit). But, all things considered they are pretty impressive.

Last - One day I was surfing through old stuff here and found a very interesting thread years old and it was on this very subject, when longer, faster sink, heavier poly was comming of age and PNW Winter Steelhead fishing.

The consensus of thread by some pretty hard core predominant (here) fisherman was they worked well and many “hung up there standard tips” in favor for them. This was when short belly spey lines were used more than heads and PNW Winter flys were 4’s – 1/0 rather than what some (larger,heavier,bulkier) prefer to fish now.

Then there is the whole what float line (tip/taper diameter) is being used thing (set- how far down & back the tip pulls the float tip/taper) also along with what really holds down a weighted non bulky fly better in down stream current @ swing - grains of T material or longer and thinner? I really don't know. I do know 8-12 pound test nylon to a 1/16oz - 1/8oz lead jig will hold down through swing in river even with jig/strip motion better than............but, that don't "fly"

I think what others have wrote - "there is more to sinking a fly than just looping on T14" is true and the variety of modern poly and faster sink rates (7.0) does pretty darn good with a fly thats sinks well in particular and sure is easy on the shoulder as compared.

In conclusion I don't find it conclusive for FFR to sumerize poly/versa leaders as "undesirable from a fishing perspective" and is contradicting as compared by it's own research (pasted above 15' 7.0 versa = 13.5' T14 and weights less 178 vs. 210 grains)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-08-2010, 10:06 AM
geoffvl's Avatar
geoffvl geoffvl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chilliwack BC
Posts: 230
Do polyleaders work well with longer belly lines? And can you add tippet material or just #10 maxima to the end?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-08-2010, 11:13 AM
t_richerzhagen t_richerzhagen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Deschutes, Ronde, Snake, Walla Walla
Posts: 2,841
I use

the 10' AirFlo intermediate polyleader a lot, as I want a little sink with wet flies most of the fall. I extend the leader with Maxima 15#, 12#, and a 10# tippet, so that the total is about 15 feet. I am not using big ugly stuff in the fall and it gives a nice anchor and great turn over.
__________________
Ted
Speyclave Contributor

Practice is about increasing your repertoire of ways to recover from your mistakes. Joann C. Gutin
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-08-2010, 11:39 AM
speyforsteel's Avatar
speyforsteel speyforsteel is offline
Degenerate caster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Crazy Land
Posts: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffvl View Post
Do polyleaders work well with longer belly lines? And can you add tippet material or just #10 maxima to the end?
Yes
I use them for winter fishing but for a giant Intruder there are better choices
I just use 2-4 ft of 10#Maxima on the end
With a poly leader and a medium copper tube getting and maintaining depth is not much of a chore
__________________
FFF CI and THCI
Sagebrush Fly Fishing
C.F. Burkheimer rods PRO STAFF
NextCast Casting Team/PRO STAFF
Riffle Wrecker flies PRO STAFF

http://longbellycaster.blogspot.com/

http://images.cheezburger.com/comple...3070178916.gif
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-08-2010, 01:03 PM
LoloPass's Avatar
LoloPass LoloPass is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: West Slope
Posts: 119
Agree with Ted

Quote:
I use the 10' AirFlo intermediate polyleader a lot, as I want a little sink with wet flies most of the fall. I extend the leader with Maxima 15#, 12#, and a 10# tippet, so that the total is about 15 feet. I am not using big ugly stuff in the fall and it gives a nice anchor and great turn over.
This is what I've had on the end of my Vision Ace for the past two years. Perfect for swinging a wet fly and it casts sweet.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-08-2010, 02:02 PM
geoffvl's Avatar
geoffvl geoffvl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chilliwack BC
Posts: 230
Awesome! Looking forward to fishing!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poly Leader help speydude Tackle 9 06-10-2009 12:08 PM
Poly/Versi Leader Snap bearcrawl Tackle 6 05-02-2009 10:18 AM
Knot on Poly leader. cloudsfor Technique 7 09-16-2005 08:36 AM
S/A short and a poly leader twohand Tackle 18 10-12-2004 01:22 AM
AirFlo floating Poly leader SparseHairHackl Tackle 5 09-28-2002 12:58 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.