SA long belly fly lines

[halcyon]

Are the new Steve Choate/Way Lin SA spey lines (need a 10#) available? If so, what cat. # do I need to have my local fly shop order? Thanks.

[fredaevans]

are in limited production now. Understand from a thread elsewhere (JD Jones' I think?) that they're shooting for Mid/end of May to have these available. Worth the wait!
fe

[halcyon]

I spoke with Bruce Richards at SA about an hour ago. He told me the new lines will be called XLT Spey and that the 8-9-10 wts are being final tested and production should start by the end of next week. No packaging yet, but we joked that "plain brown wrappers" would be fine as long as we can get the lines:>)

Bruce has promised to call when they can actually be ordered by your local fly shops. I'll post that information as soon as I get it.

[fredaevans]

Probably won't make too much difference as I'll be taking one of each. :devil:

[jimsand]

What about 7wts? Anybody know how long it will be before the XLT will be ready for the market?

[halcyon]

The 7 wt lines are done being tested and are ready to go into production. My understanding is they will all go into production sometime right after the end of next week.

Sorry I didn't mention the information about the 7wt lines.

[jimsand]

Thanks for the information Halcyon, I ordered one today after you posted. Can't wait to try it out.

[NrthFrk16]

I assure this has been covered before but I will ask because I just need to know... :)

How does the New SA XLT Spey lines differ from say an Accelerator or a standard Double Taper Spey?...I am assuming the XLT's have nothing resembling a power hinge. :confused:

[Rick J]

The new SA lines do not have the power hinge and have a longer head - I believe they may vary some from 95' to over 100' depending on line weight. They have a long front taper - not exactly sure of actual length but at the Rogue Spey Clinic, Way mentioned that the cut point for heads or tips was at around 25'

[halcyon]

Jim brings up a good point. The line wts. are based on the total head wt. not the first 30 ft. as these lines are not made to shoot but to cast the whole head once outside the rod according to Bruce Richards. He also said they SA are not quite sure how they will be labeled due to differences in various brands and models of rods they may be used on. Bruce mentioned one idea they were thinking about was to provide a chart with the popular spey rods and a compliementary SA XLT line suited for that particular rod.

[fredaevans]

Bruce Lives.

The one thing that I really like about the RIO site is Simon's 'point blank' about which line for which rod, recommendations. SA would be well advised to follow this lead.

God Knows' Steve and Way have tested these lines to death so some initial recommendations should be reasonable.

PRAY!!
:confused:

[Nate Bailey]

jimsand
where did you order yours through? ........Nate

[jimsand]

Nate,

I backordered it from Bob Marriotts in southern Ca.

[King Salmon]

Has SA released a data sheet on this new line? It seems like a lot of excitement but I'm not quite sure I know what to expect. I'm currently using a Mastery Spey line (WF-8/9-F). Its 120 feet long, has a 50 foot belly and a 20 foot front taper. How does the new line differ?

[fredaevans]

I've been using spey rods, and related lines, for a long time. The new SA's we used at the Charity Clinic are a true step up from what's on the market. RIO, et. al., will have to go back to the drawing board after these hit the market.
fe

[halcyon]

At this point your local SA Mastery dealer can order (backorder) the new XLT Spey lines. They should start shipping in about 2 weeks. The lines will be officially introduced and put in the printed catalog in Sept. according to Bruce Richards.

[JDJones]

Take my word for it. When these things become available they will be heads and shoulders above anything else out there. Buy todays version, and if they make it better later on, buy it again. They are that good. The only question is, are you really up to picking up 80+ feet of line?:D

JD

[fredaevans]

a 'simi-official' list of what line wt's and line lengths will be available? Perhaps, should also add, if they're all not going to be available at the same time a 'simi-schedule'
;) of what will be marketed when? (Now, how's that for a run on sentance:hehe: )

[sean]

So do these lines come with a 40 inch steelhead as part of the deal?

Seems like it with all this hype from you guys :hehe:

-sean

[fredaevans]

Ah, don't we wish!:rolleyes:

[Gardener]

Anyone know when/if these lines will be released in UK?

[Nate Bailey]

fred
Im going to order a 8/9 for my 9140, Thats the line Steve recommended for me. as far as the prototypes went but I have head that SA isnt shure how there going to label the LInes, as far as marketing goes for the line, if I was Sa I would wait and unvail it during the Clave.........Nate

[fredaevans]

Good morning young man!!:D Lots of 'talk' about this being "The Plan" of point of intro'ing the lines. Where better than at a Clave with a couple hundred (OR more) potential buyers. Sounds like a good marketing move to me.
fe

[Salar-1]

SA Should at least have these lines ready for June 01 "Openning day on the Matapedia(East Coast river) !!! You West coast guys as well as us should at LEAST BE PRACTICING on these lines. A lot of talking about equip't gets done in Claves and on 1st day on a Salmon river .SA is missing a grand opportunity here !
Cheers Brian
BTW the Steelhead Muddler works fine on Landlocks :-))))

[fredaevans]

Very cool. Have asked permission to post some of it to the Board. With luck, I/someone else will update 'what's coming' with the SA lines. The more I see/read/hear about these lines the more impressed I've become; think I could get a freebee???:devil:

Just kidding, but I will be a purchaser.
fe

[halcyon]

Here is the information I received on 4/29/02 from Bruce Richards on the range of the new spey lines. And as I mentioned earlier they will be formally introduced and put in the catalog in Sept.

"Bruce,
We will most likely have 6/7,7/8,8/9,9/10,10/11 wt. lines. I would like to rate them as single line weights, but there is so much variability in rods I think we have a slightly better chance of getting good rod/line match-ups with dual ratings.
Bruce"

[fredaevans]

on what SA will charge for the lines?
fe

[Rick J]

In recent discussions with Bruce he indicated that he hopes to start production runs on the lines today starting with the 9/10 and then the 8/9. He has great hopes to have them out and available by Spey Clave time. He expects they will retail for around $75 which sounds reasonable to me due to all the testing that went into a line that is arguably aimed at a relatively small niche market.

I believe they will come with literature on where to cut if you want to install your own heads/tips. Later versions of the line will come as multi-tips. The head lengths vary depending on line weight and overall length will vary from 120' to 140'

[tackleman]

Just to add further ingredients to the mix of new products that could be available at the clave - Airflo is hoping to have their new extra long belly lines available for testing.
Man do I ever wish I could attend! Will somebody please take a video camera and record some of the action!!!

[Rick J]

Are you talking about their line that compares to the Rio Accelerator that they plan to market or the Long Delta that is similar to the Rio Midspey? I have the long Delta 7wt on my Scott 1287 and it casts like a dream but I think that they might have messed up some by not adding enough grains to the heavier long Deltas. The long Deltas match the Deltas (similar to the Windcutter head lengths) in grains but the weight is spread out over the longer belly. I have not had a chance to test cast the heavier long deltas and am in fact waiting for the new SA line instead for my Scott 1509 but another fellow I know who really is an experienced spey caster has indicated he believes the long Deltas do not load heavier weight rods very effectively. The Rio Midspeys are significantly heavier than the equivalent weight Windcutter and seem to load the heavier rods better

[RLN]

I have to like how an airflo rep gets on this thread a couple of posts ago to promote the product he sells.

[tackleman]

I opologize if I've offended anyone for adding my comments to this SA line posting. It was offered because of the obvious interest in new speyline designs. For what it's worth, I'll be buying one of the new SA lines because I'm interested in everything 'spey'.
To respond to the post above - Tim Rajeff had the Delta and Long Delta lines built to the same grain weight spec for line designation because of the confusion around which line balances to a rod. The hope is that once you find grain weights that perform for you on your tackle it will be easier to find lines, including lines with grain rated sinking heads, that will perform for you just as well.
You are correct that anglers are finding the Airflo Long Delta lines somewhat lighter than equivalent 'line rated' product from other manufacturers - they are. I don't know if the prototype extra Long Delta lines will be the same grain weight stretched even further but if they make it to the clave Tim will be very interested in the response. His work with Dec has so far been well received.

[Rick J]

I'm not sure what the fuss is. What better forum for getting information out about lines that are coming out. I was excited to see the post. I'm not sure I see the difference in the post about Airflos coming available and the new SA lines. Who has better info about lines than the reps. Simon has posted important information regarding the Rio lines that gives good information to all the guys trying to get a handle on this changing sport. To Tackleman I say thanks for the posts.

[Nate Bailey]

Tackleman I second ricks post.
I have a long delta that I am verry happy withI shoot about 30' of running line with it , I will be excited to try air flos new line.what is the belly lenght? A man cant have to many lines:hehe: unless you ask my wife........Nate

[lastcaststeve]

Dear Tackleman,

I'm with the others that think this is the place to discuss the Airflow lines. I get to cast and demonstrate (no professional connection by the way) with the new SA Mastery XLT's this year at the spey clave, and do feel them to be superior to most other currently marketed lines....(I'm also quite admittedly predjudice towards long bellied lines) but am always interested in new developments. I spoke with Tim at length yesterday about the new lines he and Dec have been working on, but did not realize they were that close to production. Tim did say that he will be at this years spey clave and I hope they will be available to test drive! I believe the taper designs are fundamentally somewhat different anyway..look forward to seeing the new ariflows! Please keep us informed on their progress...

Best Regards,

steve

[NrthFrk16]

I agree with most everyone else is well.

The SA XLT was advertised by those heavily involved with the development of these line and like myself, others had no problem with that free adverstisement.

Therefore there should be no problem with Tackleman's post as he was not blatantly advertising the Airflos but informing us on these products in the same manner that those involved with SA did.

[fredaevans]

There was talk of these new lines in early threads (by folks who were working with them in the testing/tweeking stage), but the real volume of posts actually started after the Charity Spey Casting Clinic.

The 13 students down here ran the scale from folks who were already down right good with a spey rod (Rick J, as an example. PS here: DO NOT go fishing with this guy and bet money on who will catch the first, biggest or most ... you've all been warned) to mid-line self taught folks (like myself) to one fellow (Mike O'Brien) who had never held a spey rod in his hand before that weekend. Mike, by the way, was the only attendie who is was not a member of this Board.

With the total number of rods, line set ups in use, etc., everyone was (as was/is the case at the Sandy Clave) swapping rods to try something 'new.' (I even got a new rod out of this one ... told Joan over dinner with Clinic guests so she wouldn't blow a blood vessel :devil: ).

I may be over-speaking here, but everyone came away with the thought that "I just gotta get one of them!" Good "advertising?" The best, nothing sells a product or service like a happy camper customer. Being in retail sales you'd know this better than I.

Will Airflo, et. al. be 'demo-ing' their new products at the Sandy Clave? They'd be nuts not to. Word of mouth advertising doesn't cost a cent; and sells a lot of product(s)! Guy asks you ( a person in whom he has trust) if you've ever tried/used 'x-y-z?' You say yes, and give a good/bad "review" and you've probably just made a sale ... or killed one.

fe

[NrthFrk16]

Fred-
The recent hype, so to speak, was generated by those who attended the charity clave but I do remember a thread or two a while back that were started by those closely involved with the development of the XLT.

Like I said before, I have nothing wrong with that at ALL but I was just agreeing that we should not call foul when another member does the same.

[JDJones]

As I recall, The guys involved in the development of the SA lines came in on the discussion only to clarify some things that had been posted by some of us that were going more or less on here say.

However, as has been said before, this is a discussion board. I see nothing wrong, and in fact would welcome, news of the latest developementments in anything Spey. Tackle included.

Although I suppose a bit of common sense restraint is called for. Like is it a leak of inside information, or is it out and out advertizing. I am sure the board has the capability to take action in the event of abuse so I leave it at that.

JD

[Carl]

I talked with the folks at Bob Marriotts today, who said the most recent info they have says mid-June before any chance of receiving the first of the new lines, and those may be without packaging. Looking forward to then.
Carl

[kush]

Man, if this line were a pregnancy a "C-Section" would have been performed months ago!

A cynic would think that the longer the wait the more people would want it...

There I go helping out the hype by throwing on a little fuel.

Seriously, I can't wait for this soap opera to be over, so I can in fact see if this line is going to look and cast the way I suspect it will.

[spey_bubba]

i thought i'd try to see if i can clarify what appears to be some confusion regarding the SA XLT lines.

some previous posts have implied a machiavellian scheme to hype and thus market this line. i have posted several notes in previous threads attempting to dispell this notion; the spey line market is simply not big enough to SA justify a clandestine KGB-style disinformation/information marketing program. as a matter of fact, SA has not marketed the line at all.

there have been delays in the hoped for release dates; these have largely been due to my pickiness, and some due to other projects that have taken priority at SA. contrary to what many might think, SA is not a humongous fortune 500 company with a whole section devoted to spey lines...

regarding the "hype", it frankly troubles me. the line has taken hundreds of hours of development and r&d time, and there are few who have actually cast pre-production prototypes. the line design goals are fairly stratightforward, and no product is likely to be "the second coming"; like rods, the primary limitation of casting and fishing performance lies in the operator, not the equipment!

basically, the line will be what the line will be. i hope that some will enjoy the work that went into it's design, and the performance aspects of the line. i do know that the XLT 8/9's have been released this week, and the 7/8 and 9/10 will supposedly follow before the end of may (i have no control over when things enter production, i do not work for SA). i have never supported or purported this line's superiority over any other line, i believe it to be another tool in the spey fisher's armamentarium.

i have also been working on a compatibility chart with as many spey rods as i can; this takes a while, and i hope that the compatibility chart will ultimately make it's way to the SA web site, once nearly complete.

thanks for the interest!

[fredaevans]

No hype that I've seen just rave reviews from the folks (the largest group of which was at the Clinic in April) saying "I just gotta get my hands on these! How soon?! How soon?!"

The best 'advertising' for any product are happy end users; this group of fellows had never seen the line, had different lines out the gazanga on their rods and everyone was 'fighting' for the chance to borrow a rod or reel with the appropriate 'test beds' by the end of the weekend. If folks trying a new product out say "Wow!," it can't get better than that.

And that's half of what a considerable portion of the Forum's here for ..... I can't afford to buy every toy that catches my eye (even if Joan would tend to disagree:devil: ). It's the joint sharing of what works, doesn't work, or is marginal that gets my "dollar vote." Up or down.

Kush, when you get your hands on these lines I think you'll be suitably impressed. However, having said that, if SA could see their way clear to send me one of each of the lines I'd go for "Head Hyper!"
:eek:

fe

[Carl]

Bubba, I think people's "hype" is just overstatement/poor word choice. I have only seen interested discussion and open sharing of caster's thinking. None of us has the time to be so conniving as to tease such a limited market as spey lines. Anyone who suggests otherwise is misinformed.

I'm in Michigan, far away from the majority of this community and events such as the west coast Clave, so I've been limited to reading about your work and that of others. I do look forward to the line, but not as some religious event..."the coming of the mythical, cures-all-flubs, spey line"! (unless it really does all that, 'cause I've almost mastered the flubbed-up cast ).

As equipment centered as we sometimes get, it helps to remember that equipment can't make your technique good.

I appreciate your commitment to seeing this line through to commercial distribution, though I'm sure that was not your original intent. We all benefit from your enjoyment of tinkering and tuning. Please remember that joining the commercial world exposes you to the criticism of the clueless. Don't take it personally, as people comment based on their own, subjective interpretations of whatever limited information they have.

I do look forward to your rod/line matching information. I primarily fish the newer Sage (green) 9140, and figure the 8/9 XLT will be the right match.

On a serious note, I may name my flub cast the Triple Pile Serpentine Snake Rolling Dump Cast:hehe: Whaddya think?

[spey_bubba]

carl:

thank you very much for your kind and reasoned comments. they are earnestly appreciated. perhaps overlooked to those not involved, but always a great tickle to me personally, is the fact that the simple opportunity to have the resources of SA essentially placed at one's creative whim is simply awesome, and not likely to come my way again anytime soon. somewhat like a smaller scale version of chevy saying to one of us: "yeah, sounds like a potentially interesting idea, what did you have in mind for that truck? give us the specs and we'll make a few for ya."

the lines do seem to be quite forgiving, at least in the classes we have taught. the taper design (and one of the design goals) was to help any level of caster get a better feel for the cast/rod interaction, and add both a bit of distance and consistency at any given level of effort/skill.

i have had the opportunity to cast one of my pre-production prototype XLT 8/9's on the green sage 9140, i think it is a perfect match. consistent single speys or flip singles of >110 feet of line with a 15-17 foot leader were no problem standing knee deep in water. the XLT 9/10 will definitely be too heavy for either the new (stiffer butt) or old 9140, but match the 9141 and 9150.

i really like the name of your flub cast. my signature flub is the (after the trigger has already been pulled and the wind has suddenly changed direction--just before the hook buries itself in the backside) "man, i really wish i hand't done that but it's too late to duck" cast...

[fredaevans]

this past Monday night. Good puff of wind at the wrong time ... and wack off the back of my head with a 1/0 fly hook. The 'force was with me,' no blood shed .... but a major 'heads-up,' or should that be a 'heads-down.'

Call Dana and have him do a line drawing of the cast; it's just/must be on the board1
:hehe:

[Nate Bailey]

Good to see ya Bubba
all I can say is that the new SA line added about 20' to my cast over the old spey dt I was using. I get that kind of distance with my air flo but I have to shoot alot of line and my mending is realy hampered. I dont usually fish 80' or 90' of line but in the holes that I do a long mend is as important as a long cast thats where, I could use the SA , like Way already mentioned this line is another addition to anyones spey tools, I will use it as my floating line and cut my delta for tips............Nate

[loco_alto]

I had an opportunity to cast the XLT at the Spey clave and thought it was a damn good line. I was casting only 70' of line and found it quite effortless. I'll be dropping a dime on this line as soon as they drop the orange color (pet peeve).

[fredaevans]

Grand Spey line noted on the Board on Friday. I gather RIO has/had chosen the Clave to intro the line to the public. If so, any thoughts, or want to repeat someone elses comments?
tnx
Fred

[Ol Rich]

Got the opportunity to cast the new SA lines on my St. Croix rods. For those of you who use these rods the 8/9 loads the 14' and the 9/10 works great on the 15'.

Fred,

I found the Rio Grand Spey on the T&T rod to be a pleasent easy casting combination. Wish I would have had to opportunity to try the line on my rods. The line sure turns the leader and fly over.

Rich

[watersprite]

IMHO...

Aside from the awesome collection of personalities, the single greatest item of note was the SA line, the XLT. Admittedly, I was a spectator to the casting demonstrations and didn't cast the line personally but, this line was by far the distance champ. I watched the different casters using the different lines and noted the increase in distance and the ease in casting this line.

RIO's new line must have been a no-show as I didn't see any increased emphasis or interest in their lines.

Airflow - Dec did his laidback demonstration with this line. I liked his style very much as it suits my economy of effort when fishing. The Airflow worked up well in his arena.

But then, I'm a total newbie to Spey casting and easily impressed. Right now if I was in the need for a new line I would probably buy the SA-XLT. Why? Spey_Bubba; he took a special interest in working out a new Orvis Spey rod for my kid (thanks also to Steve Choate). They both admittedly had never cast an Orvis spey rod yet had this rod "dialed-in" in no time.

watersprite

...an owner of SA Steelhead line and RIO Windcutter line who often uses Airflow sinking leaders...

[fredaevans]

that the 'new baby' in the fly line business was born of very heathly and well adjusted parents (well, that may be stretching it a bit for Steve :devil: )

One post commented on using the new line on a Burkie 7-8-9 rod and loving it; I had the same reaction to this rod line combo at the clinic. If it weren't for the new house coming up I'd have dropped the dime on Monday morning to order up that rod in anticipation of the lines availability.
Fred

[JDJones]

"Hi Brian, my name is JD and I want one of those XLT lines" was probably the first thing Brian O'Keefe, who reps SA, heard Saturday morning as he was setting up.:chuckle: An hour later, Mark's wife Patty sold me the line.

I purposely waited for others to post thei comments before jumping on the board, and it's pretty much all been said, I think, so I'll leave it at that.

One of the concerns regarding this line had been it's ability to handle sink tips. Not to worry. This was demontrated very well at the Sandy. Just ask Mark Bachmann.:chuckle:

I would just like to say thanks to all who gave their time and expertise to see this project through. Well done, guys. I have to say though, that I am a little envious of those who were priviliged to be the R&D testers. :smokin:

JD

[Crusty]

Mark only had the 8/9 available when I bought mine at the clave. I am going to use it on my 7/8 St. Croix. I need one for my St Croix 10/11 too. Is Mark getting some in? I'd prefer to give him the business.

Spey_bubba, please e-mail me when you get a chance.

Crusty

[fredaevans]

just got a 'short supply' of the one in time for the Clave. He was a bit tentitive on when the other two (and more of the 8/9) would be coming in. However, he is taking orders for all three lines.

Suspect, as it was 'his show' that really intro'ed the lines to the public that SA will lend a warm ear to his order for more. (e.g. don't bite the hand that's feeding you!:rolleyes: )

Don't forget to get to Mark's shop just click the spey clave info to the upper left to take you right to his web site.
fe

[loco_alto]

Fred,

I didn't get a chance to try the new RIO line, sorry I can't report. I did enjoy the XLT while learning the Blue Creek special cast, generously shown to me by Billy Williams. Now I think I know why Choate calls it the wild turkey. :chuckle: Yesterday, in the wind and a 15' tip, I was a bit reluctant to give it a go. All that line flying behind.. a little too scary for me right now. But a pretty cool cast.

[fredaevans]

Gad, if so that takes me back ... lets not go there .... I am getting 'long in the tooth.' :eek: Remember being there one late afternoon-til dark when it was sooooo damn cold the two steelhead I'd caught actually froze on to my fingers. Not quite the same as sticking your tounge on a frozen lamp post, but just as scarry. :eyecrazy:

Never seen Steve C with a sink-tip/head but I can well immagine.
fe


Ok, Juro .... what's it going to cost the 'collective we' to get a spell checker?:rolleyes: