Underhand cast

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<TABLE border=1 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=100%><TR><TD nowrap width=100% valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Originator: Huckleberry</FONT></TD><TD nowrap valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Date: 1/9/2001 7:36 PM</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 width=100% bgcolor=#FFFFFF><TR><TD><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=2><DIV>It appears to me that the underhand casting method always uses the same hand configuration as the Single Spey. Is this correct? For instance, conventional teaching says to use a Double Spey if the wind is blowing Down river. In the underhand method you would still use the same motion comparable to a Single Spey, though. Would this be correct? Is it such that the heavier, shorter head used in the underhand style cuts through the wind and allows you to use the same motion regardless of wind conditions or anything else? But you would have to be able to switch hands depending on which river bank you're fishing. Does anyone on this list employ this style only? Thanks for clarification. </DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

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<TABLE border=1 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=100%><TR><TD nowrap width=100% valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Originator: kush</FONT></TD><TD nowrap valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Date: 1/9/2001 10:02 PM</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 width=100% bgcolor=#FFFFFF><TR><TD><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=2><DIV>Huckelberry,<BR><BR>While I do not fish the Underhand cast, Dana and I have fooled about with it. He or some of our Scandinavian board members could give you more in depth explanations. I can say that the basic casting set ups will be the same, the difference is that the active hand in the cast is the bottom or "underhand", basically rather than snap your top hand to accellerate the loop you pull back with your underhand. In my limited attempts it seems that the cast you use whether single spey, double spey, spiral roll or whatever will not matter. I hope some of the Scandinavians hop in here and add to our limited knowledge of the style. <BR><BR>Tight lines - tyler</DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

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<TABLE border=1 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=100%><TR><TD nowrap width=100% valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Originator: fkrow</FONT></TD><TD nowrap valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Date: 1/10/2001 1:33 AM</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 width=100% bgcolor=#FFFFFF><TR><TD><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=2><DIV><DIV>In the spring of 1999, I was fortunate to attend a three day casting class with Jim Vincent and Simon Gawesworth.&nbsp; The favored rod of both instructors was the stiff butt Euro style and we used the Underhand for completion of cast and the Upper hand for fulcrum.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I found the basic difference wrt the Traditional or True Spey Casting was that we were taught to cast left handed (upper hand) over left shoulder and right handed (upper hand) over right shoulder. &nbsp;It was confusing the first day but quickly became evident how easy and efficient this method was compared to traditional Mike Maxwell teachings where a right handed caster always uses right upper hand.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>We have read many articles on how the Euro rods cannot really spey cast in the traditional style and are&nbsp;mainly designed &nbsp;for shooting heads and overhead casting.&nbsp; If the True Spey complex horizontal loops and figure eights are eliminated the Euro rods cast very well.&nbsp; The casts we concentrated on were; Single Spey, Double Spey, Snap-T and Snake Roll.&nbsp; Overhead casting was not taught or encouraged although some students played with it on breaks just to see how far the line would travel.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>The seminar was at Hunter's Angling Supplies in NH on the Merrimack River.&nbsp; Nick Wilder of Hunter's had so many demo spey rods you could not wrap your arms arround the stack. &nbsp;Lines and reels to match the rods were also provided.&nbsp; I am temped to take the class again if only for the oportunity to test cast&nbsp;many of the rods and lines.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Regards</DIV> <DIV>Fred Krow</DIV></DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

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<TABLE border=1 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=100%><TR><TD nowrap width=100% valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Originator: Per Stadigh</FONT></TD><TD nowrap valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Date: 1/10/2001 10:06 PM</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 width=100% bgcolor=#FFFFFF><TR><TD><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=2><DIV>x</DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

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<TABLE border=1 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=100%><TR><TD nowrap width=100% valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Originator: Per Stadigh</FONT></TD><TD nowrap valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Date: 1/10/2001 10:09 PM</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 width=100% bgcolor=#FFFFFF><TR><TD><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=2><DIV>Hello Huck.,<BR><BR>I will try to shed some light over this topic. Being a Swede with more than 20 years of double handed casting behind me. I have seen this type of casting develop and eventually to boom. In Scandinavia I guess more than 80% of all salmon &amp; sea trout fly fishers use it more or less exclusively. When I first started it all was a matter of long slow rods and DT lines, then Göran Andersson – undoubtedly one of the World’s most analytic and talented casters – started experimenting with various roll casts to be conducted with tailored shooting heads and thin running lines.<BR><BR>The Underhand cast in many ways is a Single Spey. With the use of a much shorter line – normally a 35-45 feet head the movements can be kept much “smaller”. I like to see it as the rod is moving within a more narrow cone, if you see what I mean. The only time when excessive force or power is used is when the final delivery is made. With a crisp pull on the rod’s butt and a little push from the upper hand a head can be sent off amazing distances. Although I am not am all that keen on casting – fishing the fly is my “dope” – I still cover + 35 yds with ease.<BR><BR>Normally I fish with the hand facing the river as my upper hand – I switch from right to left depending on what riverbank I happen to be on. With a wind blowing upriver that is ideal and works fine with a moderate downriver one. (Why I hate the latter type of wind has lees with casting to do that that it restricts efficient mending enormously. And upriver wind is most helpful in this respect.)<BR><BR>If the wind gets really nasty from upriver one has to switch to either a normal Underhand cast conducted with the backside hand on top – works fine if one is waded out and the angle of presentation not needs to be much more than 45 degrees. If this not works one has to retreat to the Double Underhand cast. As you have guessed this is similar to the Double Spey.<BR><BR>Hopefully I have you all confused by now… J<BR><BR>Tight lines,<BR>Per Stadigh <BR></DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

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<TABLE border=1 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=100%><TR><TD nowrap width=100% valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Originator: fkrow</FONT></TD><TD nowrap valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Date: 1/10/2001 10:18 PM</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 width=100% bgcolor=#FFFFFF><TR><TD><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=2><DIV><DIV>Per,</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; Please describe your method of line mending with the shooting heads.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; I&nbsp; have some experience with the Rio Windcutter and find it difficult to mend the running line.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; What diameter and type of line are you using for running line with the heads?</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Fred Krow</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

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<TABLE border=1 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=100%><TR><TD nowrap width=100% valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Originator: kush</FONT></TD><TD nowrap valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Date: 1/10/2001 11:14 PM</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 width=100% bgcolor=#FFFFFF><TR><TD><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=2><DIV>I would just likr to comment on the common belief that the European Style rods don't spey cast well. I have found this to be patently untrue. My first speyrod was a 9140-3 Sage, while I struggled as I had NO clue how to spey cast - underhand, overhand, single, double or spiral all ended up with a curse on my part! It was not until I learned to cast AND overlined the rod with a 10/11 Accelerator that I figured it out. Now the 9140-3 is one of my favourite rods and it performs all the speycasts extemely well. While I have fished numerous rods from big slow Bruce and Walkers, the 10160 Sage, Loop Yellows, Dec Hogans all the way to the 7136 Sage, my favourite rod is the 10151 Sage which is a "European" action rod. I generally cast long belly lines in a style strongly influenced by Derek Brown. <BR><BR>Tight lines - tyle</DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

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<TABLE border=1 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=100%><TR><TD nowrap width=100% valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Originator: John</FONT></TD><TD nowrap valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Date: 1/11/2001 1:28 AM</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 width=100% bgcolor=#FFFFFF><TR><TD><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=2><DIV><DIV>Per</DIV> <DIV>I am a bit confused by your descriptons of the hand .&nbsp; When you say "the hand facing the river", are you talking about the hand whose palm is facing the river,&nbsp;or&nbsp;the hand that is on the channel side. Also when you talk about the "backside hand", are you taking about the hand where the back of the hand is facing the river?&nbsp; Would you clarify this for me? Thanks</DIV></DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

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<TABLE border=1 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=100%><TR><TD nowrap width=100% valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Originator: Per Stadigh</FONT></TD><TD nowrap valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Date: 1/11/2001 6:22 AM</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 width=100% bgcolor=#FFFFFF><TR><TD><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=2><DIV>John,<BR>Forgive a foreigner´s way with words: In my head I always am looking downriver - the hand "facing the river" then would be the the left hand when fishing from the right bank. From the same bank the right hand would be "BANK hand". (Sorry for the confusing typo!!)<BR><BR>Given time I will get into mending tonight. Time for another day away from the river.....<BR><BR>Per<BR><BR>PS. I have seen both Dana and Kush in action on the Fraser - they know their stuff - amazing casters!!! DS </DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

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<TABLE border=1 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=100%><TR><TD nowrap width=100% valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Originator: Per Stadigh</FONT></TD><TD nowrap valign=top><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=1>Date: 1/11/2001 6:22 AM</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 width=100% bgcolor=#FFFFFF><TR><TD><FONT face=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica size=2><DIV>John,<BR>Forgive a foreigner´s way with words: In my head I always am looking downriver - the hand "facing the river" then would be the the left hand when fishing from the right bank. From the same bank the right hand would be "BANK hand". (Sorry for the confusing typo!!)<BR><BR>Given time I will get into mending tonight. Time for another day away from the river.....<BR><BR>Per<BR><BR>PS. I have seen both Dana and Kush in action on the Fraser - they know their stuff - amazing casters!!! DS </DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>