Fly breaking rod with Snap-Z

[Juicyfly]

I am wondering if anyone else has had a fly break there rod from the speed of the snap-z hitting it?
This morning I had the unthinkable happen, I had a large weighted streamer on and broke off the top foot of my rod.
I have had my fly wrapped around my rod before, but nothing like this.

[Speyducer]

Three factors involved in the impact resulting in your breakage....

1. A cast that 'allowed' the fly path to meet the rod path

2. A weighted fly

3. The speed of the fly path into the rod path

The incident was not specific to the type of cast you made, not the part of the rod struck, but the transfer of kinetic energy between the speeding & weighted fly meeting a less moveable object (in this case, part of your rod), and sufficient to fatally damage the integrity of rod structure.

You should learn from the incident ;)

[Bill_I]

Heavy wt'ed flys do NOT follow the leader, line in the same plane perfectly, which "always follows the rod tip". GRAVITY - Set in motion with a cast that lifts the line/leader and brings it back over/near the rod tip the weighted fly drop's compared to the line/leader it follows and can crash the rod tip or worst you.

Heavy wt'ed flys have a mind of their own. Cast choices must be consiered.

[fredaevans]

Bummer. But now you know why some of us call the 'Snap T' the 'Sapped Tip.' :o

[tight-lines]

I just did the same thing last weekend. Tip exploded with a lound CRACK. I was losing my footing in a strong current but pushed a Circle spey none the less. Bad angle + bad mechanics+ high line speed = out of luck fisherman...lol

[Tie-Dye-Fly-Guy]

wow i didnt realize its so common and cliche. i just got my tip back from santas workshop in meiserville. broke it in BC while false casting a derr hair skater dry. went into a snap t to look smooth and bam, whacked the tip good and next cast it broke clean. bob meiser was sensitive to my ordeal and fixed my rod. still waiting for a bill. thats what great about this place. people share stories and fix stuff i stupidly break and dont send me a bill before work is started. i think i have to email him to remind him about the bill,lol anyway that meiser still worked pretty good with top 8 inches seared off. good enough to stick 4 more fish on dries in a magical non bulkley pool many miles away from my back up rod. rod was a lil quicker actioj to say the least, but if you gave it a kreiger "wump" it would send the line a blazin. great memory. thanks again bob for fixing my stupid error. note to self: dont make up casts that are not in book or on spey pages. dont transition into snap t from dry fly false casting, sure to send the fly right into the rod from change in vertical plane.

[fredaevans]

The 'Snap-T' is also called the 'Snapped Tip' in my small corner of the world. As noted above, blow one of these casts with a heavily weighted fly .... just to say your "at risk" is a minor understatement. :saeek::D

fae

[geoffvl]

I get this more often with a single handed rod. I adjust my cast so the rod is pretty much touching the water after the snap. The heavy fly still goes over the rod tip.

[idahospey]

Sorry to hear about your rod...I have also wrapped flies/leader around my tip also on occasion, lucky to have not broken a tip. My correction to avoid this has been to sweep the tip more around in toward the downstream bank, getting it out of the way of the travelling fly. Has worked for me.

[locvetter]

Bringing the rod back toward the shore after the motion that puts the fly in the air does three things: helping with the ideal anchor placement, more line in the water facilitating the sustained anchor load, and, financially most important, gets it out of the way of the coming dumbell eyes. ("Dumbell" is not just because of their shape.)

Another point on topic: If you hear the weighted fly hit your rod, but it does not break -- think again: Look at the ding carefully and even test it a bit with your hands -- you may find yourself saying "oops", or "phoey", or "there" or a number of other explatives.

It can also happen on the forward stroke. Remember, we are shooting for a railroad track, not a monorail.

Welcome to the 4 piece to 5 piece club.

[beau purvis]

Of course you guys know you do not have to have it go that fast...I see so many that think they have to do it that fast way.SLooow doownn and relax. put your rod tip back down in the water and a bit behind your position versus the shore on the second move .

[Riveraddict]

...is gospel. The faster you go, the less control you'll have over what happens. The C/Snap type casts especially, because they do put the fly into a trajectory that passes over that of the rod. The start to establishing control on C/Snap casts is to ensure that the first move is a SLOW SHOTGUN LIFT to straighten the line, "break" water tension by getting it moving, and bring the sinktip/fly closer to the surface. Only after these objectives have been accomplished should actual power then be applied to aerialize the line. The "wrong way" of initiating power IMMEDIATELY causes instantaneous (bad) resistance against the rod from water resistance, whereby the rod bends deeply right off the bat and the angler has now "used up" the lifting capability of the rod, BEFORE the line has even gotten off the water! Next, the line suddenly aerializes, producing an immediate status of reduced load to the rod, cauings it to now recover or "bounce back". The angler now speeds up the travel of the rod through the C/Snap movement because he/she has lost feel of the line. This secondary acceleration then causes the fly/line to sizzle through the air at uncontrollable speed (too fast to get the rod out of the path of the fly), the speed up - slow down - speed up process has introduced "shock waves" into the line (read as even less control), and the secondary acceleration causes the fly/line to SLAM down hard onto the water's surface (not very pretty). Yes, I've watched this process happen hundreds, perhaps thousands of times. Ya can't be trying to jerk that line immediately out of the water... it's gotta be a slower, smoother, more deliberate process - if'n you want to keep your rod tips that is!

[sinktip]

put your rod tip back down in the water

Whenever I have taught the cast this is something I harp on. I don't care if it is the circle or the Snap.

Kept telling my son one day on the Sauk two years ago and of course he knew better. Suddenly he had a 5 piece instead of a 4.

[speyforsteel]

Three factors involved in the impact resulting in your breakage....

1. A cast that 'allowed' the fly path to meet the rod path

2. A weighted fly

3. The speed of the fly path into the rod path

The incident was not specific to the type of cast you made, not the part of the rod struck, but the transfer of kinetic energy between the speeding & weighted fly meeting a less moveable object (in this case, part of your rod), and sufficient to fatally damage the integrity of rod structure.

You should learn from the incident ;)

The one that you should maybe change is #1
You may want to start using the circle cast instead and ensure that you fly/line and rod do not cross paths again and also read Ed's post well
The trick to the Z T or C cast's is to control the acceleration but I still like the Circle cast better

[Riveraddict]

...is a family of casts that I avoided using for quite a long time. My observations on the river as a guide and through personal fishing, suggested that the over-the-rod fly trajectory was just too risky of a procedure. However, as time went on I realized, via Scott O and Mike M, that the C/Snap was a very complementary cast to the Double for teaching because the Sweep-to-Casting Stroke process between the two casts were so similar. I gradually learned that the C/Snap casts can be performed with a very high degree of "safety", even with weighted flies (I use the description "very high degree of safety" instead of "perfect safety" because there are still unusual factors of circumstance such as errant wind gusts that can cause fly-rod collisions even with perfect casting form), by keeping a few factors in mind.
- deliberate, controlled "start" to the cast. "Controlled" can only be brought about by establishing direct contact to the fly from/at the very beginning of the casting procedure; see my previous post. Also, in addition to the suggestions in my previous post; drop the rod tip down to the water's surface when stripping in line at the end of the swing and KEEP IT THERE until ready to begin the casting procedure. Lifting the rod tip off the water prior to actually initiating the cast robs you of "lifting power". As an example, if your rod tip is already 12" off the water before starting the casting procedure, that will produce a loss of one foot of lifting capability!
- during the shotgun lift, watch your rod tip and the furthest point of line on the water that you can see. As you lift the rod the tip should flex A BIT downward and the line should immediately begin to "slide" through the water. If the rod tip flexes deeply and the line does not slide, then your line is "dug in" too deep - DO NOT CAST - instead roll cast straight downstream and when the fly hits the water, THEN start back into the shotgun lift. If your rod tip does not flex at all and the line does not begin to slide through the water immediately, then you have lost "contact" with the fly - DO NOT CAST - drop the tip back down to the water and strip in line until you have re-established a taut contact with the fly and then once again start into the shotgun lift.
- The shotgun lift is a slow, steady horizontal lifting of the rod that then smoothly, but quickly transitions into the actual C/Snap move. The C/Snap begins after the rod tip passes just past eye level. The C/Snap is an immediate but smooth application of power into an upstream, but also UPWARDS direction (mentally visualize about 45 degrees UP and in an upstream direction). The upwards part is very important - that's what "tells" your fly/line to go OVER the rod and not THROUGH it! One of the most common actions for setting up a rod/line/fly collision is to apply power ONLY in the UPSTREAM direction. This tells the fly/line to whiz upstream at ROD LEVEL. Also, powering in only an upstream direction can/will plant the fly firmly into one's neck/head if even a slight gust of head-on wind occurs. A good sign of if one is applying power in only the upstream direction is if you are one of those casters that finds themselves consistently bobbing, ducking, and weaving like a boxer while casting - a great source of entertainment for the rest of us on the river, probably not so safe for you!
- The most power for the C/Snap is in fact applied in the upward/upstream direction. After that burst of power is accomplished, power is smoothly backed off to a point of just "guiding" the line around/through the bottom leg of the "C", while also bringing the rod around downstream to near the original starting point of the cast and ON THE WATER. This position places the rod out of the path of the traveling fly/line. If power has in fact been backed off smoothly to just enough for "guidance" through the bottom leg, then the line will lay onto the water with a "plop" and in a fairly smooth lay out (no major squiggles or sharp angles in the line). The smoother that the line lays out on the water, the smoother and more consistent the subsequent cast will be (squiggles and sharp angles in the layout of the line result in a slack-tension-slack status during the Sweep, which equates to inconsistent water loading on the rod). Continued acceleration or application of power THROUGH the bottom leg causes very hard landings of fly/line, inconsistent layout of the line, and the occasional air "explosion" whereby one's fly mysteriously "disappears"!

I suggest practicing the C/Snap with a piece of yarn with the goal of becoming as smooth as possible in application of power and learning to use just enough power to get the fly/line to lift/loft OVER the rod and no more. At this level of power application, the fly/line will travel at a speed that is more prudent to self-preservation, along with better layout for improved casting results. It also "sounds" safer. Few things are as scary to me out on the river than listening to the pops, whooshes, and sizzling splats of casters using too much power and acceleration during casting and just waiting to hear an accompanying crack of a broken rod or the @#$%! of an impaled caster!!!

After a while, one can become familiar enough with the C/Snap to be able to widely vary the "shape" of the "C" and application of power to be able to place the fly in a very wide variety of positions to accomodate angling circumstances. Or even "safely" cast "unsafe" flies, the prime example being heavy Clouser's (lots of weight, very little resistance - makes for a very quick-to-fly, but hard-to-control fly). Personally, I have found that the C/Snap casts are the most useful Spey-type casts available for still/very slow moving water situations because of the "widely variable anchor layout" factor. Even the use of sudden and abrupt acceleration during C/Snap casts, a usual "no-no" as suggested earlier in this post, has proven useful for snapping weeds off of the fly. So, take the time to learn conducting the C/Snap through proper TECHNIQUE rather than brute power. I think you'll find it to be a lot more fun, effective and SAFE!

[Woodlander]

Another plus of the Snap C is that you can see if the wing is fouled on the hook as it goes past, nothing worse than having done a nice cast and a good swing only to find that the wing was fouled and it was not fishing properly.

[blue dun]

Another plus of the Snap C is that you can see if the wing is fouled on the hook as it goes past, nothing worse than having done a nice cast and a good swing only to find that the wing was fouled and it was not fishing properly.

Wish my vison was that good! I usually cannot tell if the fly is still on the line.:Eyecrazy::hihi:

[Pat AV]

My wife did that to my LS21307 on the Skeena a couple summers ago, gave it a good crack and it broke on the next fish. She now refuses to use barbell eyes if she is throwing a "c" or a "t".

She has a great dislike for these casts now and that is too bad as they are very usefull I find.

[silverchip]

gotta give Cabela's some credit.I had purchased a used switch rod from participant of classifieds here,went up to the usual hole on the river this fall and sure as !@!@#$@#@ broke the top section in two about the third eye. I thought I might be able to find just that section but NO!!!, that model no longer exists.I just stood there and let these two guys at the flyshop counter hash it out,Well to shorten this up a bit, they gave me a brand new rod,no questions asked and told me to hang on the new reciept for as log as i could,just in case!!!!
Old rod 5-7 yrs old. 175.00
New rod, newstyle cork -239.00/ my price -ZIP
Thanks guys