Redundancy - or.... (tube flies)

[Feiger]

what happens when a tube fly and a Waddington shank are allowed to spend some quality time together w/ the lights off........:tsk_tsk: ok, so that wasn't that funny....

This is my first attempt ever at a "tube fly"... The inspiration for this endeavor was reading a few posts complaining about tubes breaking. Having never fished or tied tubes before, am to understand the plastic ones may not be the most durable. The other form o' inspiration was the question about getting a riffle hitch on a tube. An interesting proposition that had a few ideas thrown at it.

And I have to admit - the tube flies I've seen tied w/ the big fat plastic tubes (1/8" and 3/16" dia) just look funny... :hihi: I mean really, they kinda look like a fly w/ a cotton candy tube shoved down it's throat/up it's a$$!!!:chuckle: :whoa:

So I was thinking about this, and also reading the most recent Northwest Flyfishing mag, w/ the tube fly tied on the micro tubing from HMH. And thinking about the tube fragility concerns, and the idea of having a riffle ritch option, This creation came to mind - how about combining the micro tubing w/ a Waddington shank, piggy back style, and tying the fly of choice onto that base. So I contacted the Red Shed (shameless plug...) and requested shanks, tubing, and junction tubing. The following pictures are the results of my first attempts... All things considered, I'm pretty happy w/ the product! Seems to me it provides the bennies of a tube fly (line passes through the fly, rather than around the body, and can freely slide on the line if desired) coupled w/ the bennines of the Waddington's (durability, weight, riffle hitch capable)...

Yeah, I know, redundant, and extra expense in combining a Waddington and a tube body. But hell - when you live 120 miles from steelhead waters, it's amazing what crap you'll come up w/ in your free time... :hihi: :Eyecrazy:

Am experimenting in preperation for a trip to BC this spring, and I guess the Intruder types are definitely something to have in one's bag...

So, I'm wondering as anyone else tried this or thought of this, or have I actually come up w/ a half-assed original idea???

Photo 1 - attaching eyes (bead chain, hour glass lead or brass, etc.)
Photo 2 - attaching the micro-tubing to shank
Photo 3 - wrap over length to set up base for materials
Photo 4 - Pumpkin Intruder - my first intruder type pattern - yes, i know this one forgot the "eyes" and the hackle shell back. late night tonight... :eek:
Photo 5 - close up of the front end of the tube/shank combo

[speyrd]

I have tied flies on Stainless Steel Cotter pins 3/32 dia up to 2 1/2" long and they are inexpensive. Seems like the idea never caught on and was laughed at by several people for the suggestion.

Leroy........................

[Igor]

Hmmm, interesting concept, and most certainly worth a try. I'm trying to understand the 'engineering' behind your design,...please keep in mind that I'm not the sharpest hook in the pack.

What is the purpose of tying the tube on the Waddington? I've probably missed something very obvious, either in the photos, or visualizing how you rig the fly for fishing.

On an aside; I think the author of the tube fly article in NW Flyfishing could have used a better analogy when describing the 'fragile' nature of tying on HMH Micro Tubing. The tubing itself is fairly robust, and tubing of similar composition is used on many modern Scandinavian tube flies. I think the point that could have been clearer is that the walls of the tubing tends to collapse from too much thread pressure while tying - making it difficult to remove the finished fly from the mandrel.

Igor

[Gillie]

Feiger,
Why not just tie it on a waddington without the tube ? I like Waddingtons much more than tubes from an asthetic perspective.

If you go tho this link it shows how to rig a waddington just like you would a tube (yes the link is a sponsor)

http://www.flyfishusa.com/fly-tying/waddington.htm

Otherwise a very nice fly.

Gillie

[MJC]

The picture of the purple fly Gillie refers to on Mark Bachmann's site is a perfect example of the way I was talking about using a cotter pin instead of a waddington when we were discussing this on Juro's board.

[Feiger]

Sounds like I did more to "engineer" around a problem that didn't exist, than anything.... :rolleyes:

The problems I thought I was trying to work around delt w/ what I interpreted as a fragil nature of the micro tubes, and getting around what I percieved as a rather "messy" rigging of Waddingtons, w/ an exposed tippet going through/around/along-side the body material/wings/hackles/etc.

Ultimately I wanted a fly that was a) durable, b) relatively sleek/slim, and c) allowed for un-inhibited slide movement along the tippet. My interpretation of print and posts was that the micro tubing didn't meet my needs for durability, although maintained a much more sleek and slim profile to the fly (see my comment about cotton candy tubes.... :hihi: ). I've been intrigued by the waddington's for a while now, mostly from a more "classic look" i think they can provide. But I didn't think the rigging system as it's been described was as desirable as i'd like. Something just looks funky w/ the leader being strung across the back of the fly. for some of my more "dress" spey patterns, that was just going to bother me aesthetically. And I guess I questioned just how freely the fly could move up and down the leader after hook set. Tho in all reality, I doubt that's much of a factor...

Of course - all the above was considered and addressed w/ having absolutely NO experience w/ Waddingtons or tubes of my own. Just my perceptions of how they may or may not perform...

So ultimately, I guess I really didn't build a better mouse trap, just a different one, that's a little more complex and expensive... I'll blame that on living way to far away from steelhead rivers for that....... :rolleyes:

[Igor]

Feiger,

I admire your thinking. There are any number of effective flies that were the end-result of unconventional engineering.

Like you, I didn't care for the aesthetics of old school tube flies - the heads were gargantuan, and the proportions just didn't look right. That's why I feel that tubing like HMH's Micro Tubing and the new Guide-Line tube system from Mikael Frodin was a godsend. I've also discovered a source for brass and aluminum tubes that have the same tiny outside diameter as some of the aforementioned.

Gillie,

I love the look and lines of a classic Waddington fly, too! I've been dressing some very interesting Marabou Spey/Shrimp patterns using furled (and dressed) trailer hooks on a short shank.

MLC,

There ya go again with your cotter pins! :D

Seriously, I thought about tying a few patterns using your more frugal 'platform' - namely to achieve the performance of a straight-eyed fly.

Igor

[MJC]

What material are you using for your furled trailer hooks? I have been using 15# Maxima Chameleon which I find quite satisfactory. I also liked 20# red Amnesia.

[t_richerzhagen]

how do you line the tiny metal tubes? I find that they chafe the leader and weaken it, if they are unlined and have not found a good way to protect the leader.

For baitfish imitations the larger diameter of the tube is an advantage, from my perspective.

[GPearson]

HMH has a new "low profile" metal tube that is lined. They are really nice and worth a look.

Greg

[Benjamin]

Hallo
I prefer simple plastic Tubes from the model builders Shop next corner.
With outside ~2.5mm they are very thin and cones and thin self gluing lead makes them havey.
For me the prime argument of tubes is their fexility.
With 2.5 mm You my also use scoobidu tubes like as Flytying Material in the Januar issue of FF&FT as Sub for Silikon Tubings.
They are distributed in a biger color range as Frödins Tubing.
But you need a litle patients to make them wider.
Benjamin

[Igor]

MLC,

Like you, I use Amnesia 15 and 20lb leader material in Red and Chartreuse. For 'neutral' colored flies I like Maxima Clear or Ultragreen in the same weights.

GPearson,

The low-profile tubing from HMH is just slightly smaller in O.D. than their standard tubes. It'll be challenging for any company to market an inexpensive lined mircro tube that will be small enough (in outside diameter) to yield 'normal' tying proportions, yet large enough (I.D.) to accomodate a robust leader.

t_richerzhagen,

I love the un-lined metal micro tubing I've been using. As for line chaffing, you'd have to have some pretty serious burrs on the tube to significantly weaken your leader - that, or one helluva fish on that's been played a long time. I think you run the same risk of getting line or leader abrasion dragging it across rocks. Personally, I think some anglers make far too big an issue about lined metal tubes.

Igor

[t_richerzhagen]

I have used the "hobby" metal tubes, and used a reamer to smooth them inside, and smoothed the outside on a sharmening stone. That did chafe my leader and led to breakage. I would like to use them without a liner, but my experience makes me warry. I wouldn't want to lose a big fish.

[Igor]

Ted,

If you don't mind me asking, what size and type of leader material were you using, and what were you fishing for? Also, exactly where on the leader (or tippet) did the chafing occur?

I suppose asking what kind of "hobby" tubing were you using, and how did you cut and debur it, is in order, too.

Igor

[BLACK FRANCIS]

i use a ton of hobby store tubing in the 3/32" diameter and line it with hmh micro tubing and have had terrific results. for extra weight i add some dumbell eyes or extend the liner tube out the front put a hot bead or cone on up against the metal tube and then melt the end to hold the bead. i too have tried the micro copper tubing and buffed it extremely smooth. as soon as you hit a rock or two the front end gets rough and definitly chafes the tippet. i use 0x rio fluoroflex. this is the same diameter as the HMH low profile copper tubes.

my .02

[t_richerzhagen]

10# maxima (steelhead), usually Ultra Green, so the leader is not the issue. I have had trouble with aluminum and copper/brass tubing (standard sizes used in radio controlled plames 18" o.d. and smaller). I usually cut with a Dremel moto tool and a disk, though sometimes with an exacto saw with very fine teeth. I use a standard deburring tool, then smooth the outside with a sharpening stone or very fine sandpaper.

The chaffing seems to come at the head of the tube.

[Igor]

Ted,

Some interesting observations. Have you thought about using 10lb or even 15lb Maxima Chameleon for your leader? From my experience it's a little more resistant to abrasion.

Your post has got me thinking (always dangerous in my case) - what if you could somehow unobtrusively 'coat' or cap the tip of your metal tube with something? Epoxy comes immediately to mind.

Hywel

[Philster]

Ted,

Some interesting observations. Have you thought about using 10lb or even 15lb Maxima Chameleon for your leader? From my experience it's a little more resistant to abrasion.

Your post has got me thinking (always dangerous in my case) - what if you could somehow unobtrusively 'coat' or cap the tip of your metal tube with something? Epoxy comes immediately to mind.

Hywel
Scr*w the maxima, it's Mason time!

I have in the past "injected" both ends of the homemade tube with silicone from a small tube of silicone, and then used a hot needle to make a hole for the leader. If the tube is longer than a half inch, it's impossible to fill the whole tube and you end up with a near impossible chore to string the leader through it. filling one end, the front, however is not a problem and solves 90% of your problem. Now I just buy premade metal tubes :o self-sufficiency is cool, but it starts being too much of a hassle sometimes...

[Igor]

Philster,

Does the semi-elastic nature of silicone (when cured or dry) prevent the leader from moving freely through the tube?

My thoughts are too, if there is going to be any line abrasion caused by burrs on the tube (or cone), it's going to occur at the head of the fly. Is 'lining' the entire interior wall of the tube necessary?

I'm with you about 'self-sufficiency' being a pain in the backside - but it sure is satisfying when you solve a problem that the manufacturers can't or won't solve, eh? *g*

Igor

[Philster]

Philster,

Does the semi-elastic nature of silicone (when cured or dry) prevent the leader from moving freely through the tube?

Igor

You definitely have to burn a hole with a needle, too narrow and it will be a little grippy. I still think the best solution is a mini pipe-cutter and a flaring tool. The problem is finding one that goes small enough to handle diameters smaller than 5/32". They are out there, but hard to find...

[Igor]

Philster,

I found a 'mini pipe cutter' made by K&S Engineering at a local hobby shop. It's small enough to cut tubes as small as 1/16" x .014, but the cutting wheel wears out *very* quickly. The tool really isn't worth the money, IMO.

I'll stick to my Dremel and jewelers file!

Igor

[crobarr]

in my opinion, regardless of how you cut the tube to length, the most important thing is to deburr the cut and to flare the end. i've used both my tubing cutter and a dremel to cut tubes. then i use a reloaders deburring tool and then some fine sand paper to smooth the edge out. then flare the end - for the larger tubes you can use commercial flaring tools, and for the small stuff you either have to be creative (like using a large center punch), or find someone with a shop to build you a micro flaring tool. as a matter of fact, if you get REALLY aggressive with the flaring you can get lazy with the deburring, of course a flare that aggressive will cause ALOT of drag in the water :eek: .

this concludes my early morning ramblings for the day