Frodin Style Tubes

[speyman]

Here is a Frodin Style tube. The rear tube is Medium Fl Orange. The front tube is XS Clear. The rear tube is the connector tubing and the body all in one. One advantage of this style of fly, with a longer body, is that we have some room to work some body magic. This one has Iridescent thread for the rear 1/3 and some Shrimp orange dubbing, pretty busy, for the front. I even have rook to work in a tag with smaller oval tinsel than the rib. The cone is there but could just as easily not be. The brass cones in that size barely weight anything anyway. The tapering effect you can get when you cut the materials they way Mikael shows is a big improvement over my old ways. I will continue to fish my Shumakov tubes as well and will be they work equally well.

I like them all.

In a couple weeks I will have Temple Dog, Silver Fox, and Finn Raccoon to play with so these may get even better.
http://www.isomedia.com/homes/celestev/orange.jpg

[White Mouse]

...man I started playing around with this style of tubes and I started getting delusional...
I use for everything that swims in "my" River .
With every swing I take the images of Kola and Norwegian rivers come to mind....bad stuff, man!:tsk_tsk:
Anyway, I tied maybe three dozens and I just love the way they "swim".
As soon as I can get some pic, I'll post a few.

Emilio

(formerly Tarponbum)
PS check this site classic-salmon.com

[CDG]

Been playing with these a little bit myself.

CDG

[White Mouse]

Hei Speyman!
I just realized who you sre....THANK YOU for the beautyfull flies section on your website.
CDG, that one looks like a b**t kicking fly...it has all the goodies in it and I am sure that our VI steelies and brownies would like it to.
E.

[Norseman]

Using the new tube fly mandrel I see eh Jack????

Very nice looking fly. It has the shoulders that Frodin speaks of needed for the wing to come to life.

The cone from what I can interpret on his Swedish version is to help balance the fly once the hook is inserted.

Can't wait for my materials and mandrels to arrive. Thanks

And a special thanks for the Mikael Frodin DVD.....INCREDIBLE tying sequences

Paul

[speyman]

Canadian Customs will come through any day!

[papenfus]

I have only made it through a couple of the tying sequences, but from what I have seen thus far, it is a wonderful DVD...just wish I could understand what he is saying.

For those of you who do understand some of the language, what does he say regarding the shoulders of these flies?...as Norseman refers to in his comment.

thanks.

[Norseman]

Papenfus

He is refering to getting not only the wing to stand up slightly but that the fish see the fly from below. And that we tend to make the wing vertical on our flies. That they should have a taper to them. Wide at the shoulder then tapering back to a point so the fish sees the fly from below.

I liken his wing shapes to a candle flame. Wide on the bottom and tapering to a nice point at the tip.

If you watch him prep the wing material, he first takes out the under fur with his velcro brush. Then he aligns the fur by tapering it by hand, pulling the center fibres out to a point. But he doesn't make the taper from top to bottom, vertically for the wing, it is flat. So if looking from the top or bottom, your wing has a taper that the fish can see from below as the fly passes over it.

Does that make sense.

You will also note that he will wind in a hackle between the first and second wing. He doesn't fold the hackle he lets it stand up pretty much, this helps support the second wing. Much like Alec Jackson does with his patterns. This makes the wing stand up in the current and not collapse.

He also ties in the first bit of flash short as a support, then folds it over to lock it in and leaves it long to taper cut later.

The whole ideas of shoulders on a fly give the wing life, as it acts like an airplane wing and causes the water pressure to build in front like a bow wave then spills over the top and sides of the wing making a LOT of water turbulance along the wing, which in turn causes the wing to undulate very seductively giving it movement.....to a fish movement is food

Hope this helps

Paul

[papenfus]

thanks paul,
I think I get the idea.

Which winging material do you (AND others) find gives the best undulation in these style flies? I really like Arctic fox but I haven't found any yet in the length I would like for some bigger flies. I have been playing with the craft fur for the overwing and have had success with these flies, but I want to continue experimenting.

thanks,
mike

[White Mouse]

Try LLAMA hair.
It is quite inexpensive (3.75 CAN) and it is a good 6" long, very fine and mobile and wwith virtually no taper...so you can just cut it up to lenght and then taper it with your scissors.,
It comes in more colors than you can think of, but I cannot find an orange that is "full" enough for me.
E.

[Norseman]

Mike

I am using Artic fox tail fur right now, and it seems to do OK. I have found some Finnish Raccoon that looks plenty long. It runs about 4-6 inches.

I understand that Jack Cook ( Speyman) from IRISH ANGLER.COM is getting some Temple Dog hair in soon. This is what Frodin uses and it looks awesome in the water

[CDG]

Here is a photo of the taper of the fly, I think this is how they are supposed to look. The material is icelandic sheep.

CDG

[Benjamin]

Hallo,
I use not just polar fx, even Silverfox (so the shops which sell those Keyrings with Fox tails) this material is longer than that you can usualy buy here in Flyshops.
In the last weeks I expeimenting with ordinary Sheep.
Its looking quite interresting also in the water.:D
For realy long wings like this black 'n Green http://speypages.com/speyclave/attachment.php?attachmentid=4833&stc=1&d=1133774488
and even longer Flys I use pupet hair for the last segment to enlarge the fly.
Benjamin

[speyman]

I use a lot of Icelandic Sheep for the first layer or two. The top layer gets the fancy stuff. Fox and runner and the like.

Shortly I will have some real Temple Dog fur, also Finn Raccoon which is what most shops sell as Temple Dog. I am also getting some special goat and Silver fox which is nice and long and perfect for these patterns. I will post some picture when I get the stuff.

I also think putting some Peacock Herl, Rhea or something over the top, just a few pieces, adds a lot to what happens in the water. I want different materials so that in the water when one material is reacting one way another is going somewhere else. I have been doing this for years with all type of flies I tie and the combination of color and texture is the difference bewteen just a hunk of fur in the water and something that looks like it is going to swim away.

[o_clarki_clarki]

CDG,

Nice ties buddy, well done!

Vinnie

[sean]

Figured since I will be in steelhead land in a couple weeks I would try a red tempel dog as well. Thanks for the inspiration guys. It is tough getting that head small enough for the cone to go flush. I need more practice...

http://www.speypages.com/gallery/data/503/medium/IMGP0589.jpg

Recipe up in the gallery:

http://www.speypages.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/56

-sean

[Norseman]

Wonderful tie Sean. That looks great. Mikael Frodin would be proud.

I don't know if you have seen his DVD or not...but he uses very few thread wraps on all but his large clumps of hair....and only about 6 wraps at that. All other materials he limits his turns to about 2-3.

When he is tying off he does NOT use a whip finish at all. He completes his last 2-3 turns on his final material. Then applies a drop of Locktite 401 Superglue with a bodkin to the thread wrap and it wicks up the materail a bit. As the glue is dry he then slips the metal cone back on the inner tubing. Cuts the inner tubing to about 3-4 mm them melts it back just as you did

Again.....VERY nice job


Best regards
Paul

[sean]

Thanks for the kind words Paul. Yep I got the video and enbough material to tie hundreds of the things. I just have a bad case of too-may-thread-wrap-itis.

That tempel dog material really looks good in the water. :smokin:

-sean

[Norseman]

Sean:

Where did you get the wing hair from...and what is it...Temple dog?

[sean]

Actually from what I have read the correct spelling is tempel dog. Maybe one of the guys from across the pond can chime in.

I got some from jack at the irish angler and also ordered some from overseas. Not the cheapest stuff but it ties a good amount of flies and has great movement in the water. We will have to see if the fish agree...

-sean

[Norseman]

Thanks Sean.

Yes I have bought most of my materials from Jack..He is waiting arrival of some Tempel Dog. Just thought I would ask in case you had a good source.

Thanks again.

[papenfus]

Awesome fly Sean. Nice job!
Are you using two different sizes of tubing - it appears so to me?
Does anyone know what Frodin says about this in the video? Is it to get a nice small head on the fly or are there others reasons as well?

It was amazing to watch Toni K at the midwest clave tie these style flies with a minimal number of wraps and no whip finish (as described by Norseman) resulting in a nice clean (and small) head. If my memory serves me, he would make a few wraps on the final material, add a drop or two of glue and then immediately make a few more wraps over that.

I may have to give that loctite a try. I have been using zap-a-gap and it works but can be pretty thick and I constantly have to use a needle to bust back into the bottle after it has dried shut.

[Norseman]

Papenfus

From what I can decifer from the dvd is that Mikael uses two sizes of tubing for several reasons. One is, that the med size tubing is small enough that it gives his fly bodies reasonable size without being too large and it also serves as his hook holder or junction without the use of often bulky junction tubing stuck on the end of the body tube.

Second is that with the Extra small tubing inside the medium tubing he can use standard sized cone heads to finish off the fly without the expense of tube specific cone heads. I noticed one other detail about the step down to a small tube.....as he is nearing the tie in point for the wing he drops down onto the extra small tubing and this creates a shoulder, if you will, that helps prop up the wing to give it some lift so it doesn't collapse in the swift current.

At least those are my observations and interpretations.....I can't wait for the english version so I can say for certain why he does what he does

Best regards
Paul

[McIntyre]

Papenfus

From what I can decifer from the dvd is that Mikael uses two sizes of tubing for several reasons. One is, that the med size tubing is small enough that it gives his fly bodies reasonable size without being too large and it also serves as his hook holder or junction without the use of often bulky junction tubing stuck on the end of the body tube.

Second is that with the Extra small tubing inside the medium tubing he can use standard sized cone heads to finish off the fly without the expense of tube specific cone heads. I noticed one other detail about the step down to a small tube.....as he is nearing the tie in point for the wing he drops down onto the extra small tubing and this creates a shoulder, if you will, that helps prop up the wing to give it some lift so it doesn't collapse in the swift current.

At least those are my observations and interpretations.....I can't wait for the english version so I can say for certain why he does what he does

Best regards
Paul

You got it pretty correct.

I prefer to tie all the wing on the inner tube and taper the split between the inner and outer tubing with tying thread. But thats just my opinion.

[McIntyre]

For those who don't have seen the Frödin DVD. Here is a little explanation how to tye the wing in the way I prefer. This tube is tied only on an inner tube since I prefer fishing with a loose hook not attached to the tube.

http://www.flytying.no/pinkytube1.jpg

This is after tying on the underwing. I did not try to tye this with few turns, to prove my point.

http://www.flytying.no/pinkytube2.jpg

Tie on the hackel. This will cover most of the thread used to fasten the underwing (if you have more materials on the wing, tie these in too before the hackel)

http://www.flytying.no/pinkytube3.jpg

Tie on the upper wing. I prefer a longer wing compared to the tube length than Frödin. I found this is giving even better movement to the wing, and fished with the loose hook, the wing is not so easy hooked by the hook. Don't botter if there is some hair sticking out infront of the head, this will be covered well by the cone anyway.

http://www.flytying.no/pinkytube4.jpg

Put some more glue on the head before putting on the conehead. Smelt the innertube in both ends (be carefull to hold the materials back when smelting the tip).

[sean]

Thanks for the step by step!. Do you mind if I copy it to its own thread so it is more easily seen by others?

-sean

[McIntyre]

Thanks for the step by step!. Do you mind if I copy it to its own thread so it is more easily seen by others?

-sean

That's ok by me. If you like I can make a complete step by step for tube flies for the speypages. But I need some more time on this.

[sean]

If you would do that that would be much appreciated. I can put it up on the new website when you get it finished.

-sean

[sean]

Only thing about fox is its length. 3 - 3 1/2 inches is max. If you are not tying large flies I agree it is a good choice.

-sean