Spey Pages banner

Distance casting rod for 75 yr. old

8K views 48 replies 23 participants last post by  SpeySpaz 
#1 ·
HI guys
I live on the Columbia at Castlegar and a lot of times the seams are out a long way and my little 12ft-5inch 5/6 deer creek just won't reach far enough. I don't think I would have the power to cast a 15 footer but I might be able cast a 14 foot 6-7 or 7-8. Any views on this. Second, how far can a line be cast with a 14 footer?? Ability isn't a problem as I cast the 5/6 deer creek 85-90 ft plus leader without much problem. Could someone using one of these set ups fill me in please. I would really like to hit 125ft plus leader if possible, or am I dreaming?? What type and weight of line would be used to get this distance??? I know, --I'm asking a lot but I have to ask.
Bjay
 
#2 · (Edited)
Blake its not about power its about proper technique and should be effortless. Instead of a new rod right away, invest in some lessons and practise without fishing. :smile2: Then you can decide what size rod you want as the bigger rods will give you distance easier
 
#3 ·
Most certainly a 14' rod can reach the distances you are talking about. It sounds like you are getting good distance with your 12' rod so stepping up a few feet in rod length (providing your technique is good) should not be a problem reaching out to 125'. I would probably recommend stepping right on up to a 15' rod. The long rods are a lot lighter today and one can easily cast a 15'er all day without tiring. I would look for a rod that is a bit fuller flexing to make it easier on yourself. I see fisherman all the time using short rods and really working hard to get every bit of distance out of them. Many times stepping up to a longer rod will actually be less fatiguing and more enjoyable.

Good luck and 75 is not old!

Gene Oswald
 
#4 ·
BJay, It absolutely IS about the rod in the sense that if you use perfect technique in both cases the longer rod, and secondly the heavier weight rod will cast further. But no one will argue that casting better doesn't help as well. I agree the distance you are getting with your light weight DC is not that bad for that rod. Why not try one of the longer heavier DC Rods? Minimal adjustment, and you should be able to gauge the added effort in upping the length and weight with minimal confusion, and perhaps extrapolate to where you would feel most comfortable most quickly.

Only you can say what you feel comfortable with, but you should try all lenghts. It is not exactly true that a 15' rod is very tiring, but they are very tiring if you are not yet casting them with economy. So give them a chance. Sound like you are an ideal candidate for finding a shop that can lend you rods to try out.
 
#6 ·
I was just over on the Chetco a few weeks ago with Bob, casting his S2H15068CX-6 (yes, a 6-piece), and there wasn't any water I couldn't touch. I actually hung the fly in branches across the stream, quartering down, and the Chet is not a narrow little brook!

The weight of this rod belies the power it contains. I'll bet this rod doesn't weigh more than 6 oz, and I was turning over dumbbell-eyed intruders on 15 feet of type 3 tip with ease.

There is no way this rod would wear you down after a full day of fishing. It's just such a joy to cast - it almost asks you to cast your best, and it will return the favor. Shoot for the treetops, good bottom hand, and hang on!!

I'm going to build one to take to Scotland this fall, as it breaks down into 2.5' sections, and packs easily into a duffle.

just sayin'...............
 
#7 ·
Yes! What SLSS said. Hit the Sandy Clave this spring and give near anything one can dream of a try on the river. About 2 full days to test fly rods/reels/ lines in the water. I'd also offer that long rods are a bit easier to cast. More forgiving in timing and probably amendable to a greater variety of lines.

I've just assembled a new rod and will use that venue to evaluate potential lines. Much less expensive than making a high dollar purchase only to find something marginally acceptable.
 
#8 ·
So the common thread here is more about technique than power...reducing the resistence of the line going out will certainly provide performance with good technique...if you were to watch Goran Andersson with his underhand stroke you will see how effortless distance can be to a point..if you Watch Scott MacKenzie and some of the distance casters you see something else. 125' is a very good distance to accomplish with a very good cast using a rod of good quality and a proper line to match... love the Columbia and only wish to fish it more...not all rods are about distance so make sure to have the proper match
happy casting
 
#10 ·
If you have the space behind you, then overheading a shooting head will give you more distance than you could ever wish for.Its a new technique to learn and probably will involve new"kit",but thats no bad thing at all,lol.A 14ft fast actioned rod, mono running line and custom made heads(to suit you and the rod!) and you can expect some serious distance with the right technique.
Yorkie.
 
#11 ·
This response from Meiser to a similar question I posted might be helpful:

My thoughts:

The S2H15068C-4 is a fine tool, but you would be majorly over-rodding your targeted gamefish with her.

... This is a rod better suited for game fish well into the 20 pound range.

I'd not suggest it for the 1 to 8 pound game fish typical of the lower Klamath

The S2H15946C-5 has been re-designed, and is now 20% lighter in hand then the previous model, and if you want to fish the long rod, then this would be far more suitable for your targeted game fish to consider.

But ... I think a better option then either of these rods (for this fishery) would be the S2H14246C-5 (14'2" 5 wt 5 pc) the S2H14257C-5 (14'2" 6 wt 5 pc)

We have built many of these rods for anglers world wide wanting to fish large rivers for smaller game fish similar to the lower Klamath.

... Or if you'll wish to get adventurous <> We do have the ability to work together with you one-on-one to design a specific blank to the action, length and power that you would wish to use.

Also <> Phone conversations are always more accurate then E-Mails: 541-770-4766

Thanks <> Meiz
 
#12 ·
I would really like to hit 125ft plus leader if possible, or am I dreaming?? What type and weight of line would be used to get this distance??? I know, --I'm asking a lot but I have to ask.
Bjay
I would take a 15ft 11wt rod and cast 45ft 660gr floating Scandi head and 15ft leader and fly would go at best to 130ft but only with an effort. About 120ft quite comfortably. A longer and heavier line head would produce slightly longer cast but it would be harder to cast as well.

Esa
 
#13 ·
BJ,

I'm hoping to spend a little time up in Northport fishing this summer and if we can arrange a time you are welcome to try/fish my T&T 1477-4 and 1498-4. Really easy rods to cast that might surprise you how little effort is required to cast long distances. If you ever get the chance to watch Gene Oswald (Spencesbridge) fish his B&W 16'6" Walker 9-10 you would be amazed how little effort he expends fishing at 150'-160'. Slow, effortless stroke and away it goes, and, the guy never misses! In fact, we are putting on a one day spey clave down in the Methow on July 15th and Gene (with a large selection of B&W rods) as well as a number of other great casters and rod reps will be there. You are welcome to come down and try a bunch of big sticks for yourself. Should be a lot of fun.

Best,

Tom McCoy
Thomas & Thomas Fly Rods
 
#14 ·
BJay

I fish often with the Deer Creek rod that you mention. Based on the distance you're casting, i'm sure your technique is pretty solid. As others have mentioned, I think it is certainly reasonable to achieve longer distances with a longer rod. These days, the trouble is deciding which one. There are so many good rods made with amazing technology.

You have already received some great feedback. Gene helps represent B&W rods and several have commented on the offerings by Meiser. The clave, if you can't be patient, would be a great place to try a few rods.

Good luck in your quest.
 
#15 ·
BJ,

I am pretty familiar with the Deer Creek 12656 that you've mentioned ... Sweet little rod

In all honesty: If you are consistently achieving distances in excess of 80+ feet with that rod, then I would say that you have more then fundamental knowledge of casting a two handed rod ...

... I'd say your pretty damn good !!!

I would suggest that a logical approach to upping your distance ante into the 90'+ range would be to increase both the length and power of your next rod, and perhaps adjust the line systems used.

If you'll ever wish to try out a longer rod (or rods), and a few different balanced line systems <> Please feel free to contact the shop (541-770 4766 <> Rmeiser@charter.net

We can then discuss the details of rod /line marriages that would be suitable for you to try out hands-on ... On your own waters.

We have several longer rods available that would meet your mentioned criteria.

We do this sort of thing all day ... Every day ...

... In fact <> That's All we do !!!

Thanks <> Meiz
 
#16 ·
Rod for distance casting

Hi BJay
All the best for you having long time to go out fishing.
And you are not too old for 15 ft rods.
I'm not very experienced and only know something about B&W rods.
The Walker series is build for the North American market.
I have an 13 ft of this series. Smoother than the Norway's.
Others with no experience in flyfishing remarket the distance with the right line able to reach.
If you want to try a longer rod i would like to recommend the 4x4 Norway series from B&W.
They are light and slim not very fast but solid work and to handle with ease.
Don't worry about the weigt class this rods are signet.
If you want to get more information about would TYKE perhaps be able to give help.
He is very experienced about this rods.
Best regards
Thilo
 
#17 ·
125 feet, WOW. I wish I could reach 125 feet with ease with my 13'3" 7 weight. What type of line are you using on a 14 to 15 foot rod to reach out 125 feet? With a 50 foot head you would be shooting 75 feet of running line. I have a hard enough time managing 30 feet of running line. I have never fished the Big River but have spent a lot of time on the Snake, Clearwater, Deschutes and such. Thinking if I need a 125 foot cast, I am not sure what I would do. length of rod has little to do with distance. Its all about line speed. I can reach the same distances with a single handed rod and a double haul as I can with my two handers. A 9 foot rod with a short heavy head with mono running line and a stripping basket, if I had the room to back cast, would be my tool of choice. Two handed casting the Double Spey and the Single Spey was developed because of the lack of back casting room. It took a longer rod to develop the needed line speed for the cast. You could overhead cast a long rod with a heavy head and mono running line, but still would not have much more of an advantage. Distance casts and fishing casts are two different animals. 80 to 90 feet is a pretty good cast for the average fly caster. If you can do it with a single handed rod, I would stick with it and try to improve. If you want the advantage of casting two handed learn how to cast a two handed rod. Thinking you will automatically improve your distance by going to a long rod is misleading. As for the 125 mark, not realistic as a fishing distance. 90 to 100 is long.
 
#24 ·
125 feet, WOW. I wish I could reach 125 feet with ease with my 13'3" 7 weight. What type of line are you using on a 14 to 15 foot rod to reach out 125 feet? With a 50 foot head you would be shooting 75 feet of running line. I have a hard enough time managing 30 feet of running line.
My thoughts exactly. If we take a tippet of 15' into consideration, this may reduce the length of running line to be shot to 60', but still unmanageable (for me at least). 125' across the Columbia will get you across all kinds of different speed currents that will wreak havoc on your ability to mend, detect a bite or set the hook.

Lighter lines and 125' casts? Even a whiff of wind will spell danger.
 
#18 ·
Distance casting

Hi guys
Thanks for all the input. Fabulous. Baschwatz, thanks for the 75 is not to old. It only feels old when I climb out of bed in the morning and my hands don't work and my elbows won't bend. I have a 15 ft 9/10 and it is too much. Also 13 ft 8/9 that I was able to cast 125 ft. These rods aren't nice light rods like Bob makes. Powerful but not light. If I was to cast that 13 ft'er all day I would need some nice young thing to give me a massage to get me going the next day. They are both going on the market this year. I fish the Columbia at Castlegar and the average fish is smaller than they used to be so I need to stay with a lighter rod and line.
I tried a friends 15 ft #8 Echo a couple of days ago. It felt good. I only cast it a few times and got some pretty good distance out of it. I got around 90 feet out of it right away, but it also felt pretty heavy. I had a 550 scagit and 24 ft dry tip on it. After casting a 12 1/2 ft 5/6 rod everything feel heavy.
I'm amazed I never got a response from someone with a 14 ft # 7 or 7/8 rod. Maybe it isn't a very popular rod/line combination.
By the way, anyone, with a little practice, could get 80 to 85 feet, plus leader, out of a 12ft 6inch 5/6 Deer Creek. O, buy the way , that's standing on the shore. You have to remember, Bob Meiser helped design that rod.
 
#20 ·
Hi guys
Thanks for all the input. Fabulous. Baschwatz, thanks for the 75 is not to old. It only feels old when I climb out of bed in the morning and my hands don't work and my elbows won't bend. I have a 15 ft 9/10 and it is too much. Also 13 ft 8/9 that I was able to cast 125 ft. These rods aren't nice light rods like Bob makes. Powerful but not light. If I was to cast that 13 ft'er all day I would need some nice young thing to give me a massage to get me going the next day. They are both going on the market this year. I fish the Columbia at Castlegar and the average fish is smaller than they used to be so I need to stay with a lighter rod and line.
I tried a friends 15 ft #8 Echo a couple of days ago. It felt good. I only cast it a few times and got some pretty good distance out of it. I got around 90 feet out of it right away, but it also felt pretty heavy. I had a 550 scagit and 24 ft dry tip on it. After casting a 12 1/2 ft 5/6 rod everything feel heavy.
I'm amazed I never got a response from someone with a 14 ft # 7 or 7/8 rod. Maybe it isn't a very popular rod/line combination.
By the way, anyone, with a little practice, could get 80 to 85 feet, plus leader, out of a 12ft 6inch 5/6 Deer Creek. O, buy the way , that's standing on the shore. You have to remember, Bob Meiser helped design that rod.
Thanks for the kind words BJay ... };^) ... !!!

For whatever it's worth <> Our most popular selling rods over the past 15 years world-wide have been of those of 14'0" in the 7/9 power range, and I am sure that many companies have rods of this length and power available. You should not have a problem finding one if this is the direction you'd wish to go.

Just my thoughts here ...

You got a few years on me BJ ... But I ain't no Spring Chicken, and I am fortunate enough to still be allowed fish a long day on my chosen waters.

... So I can relate to those morning aches and pains you speak of ... And also greatly enjoy (and appreciate) a snort or two of amber libation at the end of the day ... };^) ... !!!

I'm no math whiz like Esa ...

... But my body physically tells me (on many levels) that the 13'0" to 14'0" rod will consistently require FAR less expended energy to achieve my targeted longer distances then would the shorter 12' something rod while fishing mid to large size rivers.

At the end of the day ... I'll find myself gravitating towards rods in the 13'6" to 14'0" for 7 or 8 weight for mid to large rivers, for both Summer and Winter conditions. And find them fun for 6/7 pound fish, and suitable for larger +15 pound fish as well ... Niching the longer 15'0" rods for those specific runs requiring longer presentations.

Anyways ... Good on ya BJay <> And hope you'll find many more enjoyable years on the river !!!

Meiz
 
#19 ·
Casting heavier line using shorter rod increase efficiency because the line weight bets a bigger role! When rod gets longer it also bends more because of its higher weight and also because of its bigger wind resistance and the Moment of Inertia we feel when casting is higher.

Easy math example: if a 500gr line head is cast using 15ft rod using 1,5 feet DH grip the rod lever is 13,5ft and when these both vatiables are multiplied there comes 6750grft. Then what is the same "efficient" line weight for 12,5ft rod? It comes when 6750grft is divided using 11ft (12,5ft rod lever using 1,5ft DH grip) comes 614gr. But there is more: Although the 12,5ft rod needs to be stiffer it is still lighter and its Moment of Inertia is significantly lighter than a15ft rod has. So to make a 12,5 rod feel as tiring to cast perhaps a 750gr line needs to be cast and it will cast far!

Then what comes to the rod and fish size? I like to use relatively stiff rods! I don't mind if I loose more fish because I rarely take the fish and to me it becomes even sportier when I try to land a fish using a stiff rod and a barbless hook. Also when rod bends less the fish feels bigger when the lever shortens less.

However I still mostly use 15ft rod for DH Spey but I am used to use that length so it is easy and controlling line and fish too is more efficient and I also have many 15ft rods. And sometimes when there comes a need to cast far I change to a heavier and longer line head and then it also goes far.

Esa
 
#21 ·
casting

Bender, I like your math.
I never looked at a line and rod combination in that way. Excellent. So, I'm using a 370 gr scandi on my 12 1/2 ft rod and it is a dream to cast. I can't image casting a 700grain plus line on a 12 1/2 ft rod. My feelings are that it would be nasty. Now casting my 370 grain line on my 12 1/2 ft rod my casting action is pretty fast in order to load the rod with the light line. With a rod built for a 700 grain plus line on that short a rod what would happen to my casting stroke. Would I have have a fast stroke to load the rod or really ,really slow down my stroke.? Or does it depend on how the rod is made. I keep thinking short rod and really heavy line. Backache. Yes--no???
On my 12 1/2 ft 5/6 when I use a 390 gr. skagit and a 65 gr tip I have to slow down my casting stroke considerably and even though my line is heavier I don't gain any casting distance because of the slower stroke. MMMM some light are coming on slowly ,I'm going to have to ponder this some more.
Bjay
 
#22 ·
Bender, I like your math.
I never looked at a line and rod combination in that way. Excellent. So, I'm using a 370 gr scandi on my 12 1/2 ft rod and it is a dream to cast. I can't image casting a 700grain plus line on a 12 1/2 ft rod. My feelings are that it would be nasty. Now casting my 370 grain line on my 12 1/2 ft rod my casting action is pretty fast in order to load the rod with the light line. With a rod built for a 700 grain plus line on that short a rod what would happen to my casting stroke. Would I have have a fast stroke to load the rod or really ,really slow down my stroke.? Or does it depend on how the rod is made. I keep thinking short rod and really heavy line. Backache. Yes--no???
On my 12 1/2 ft 5/6 when I use a 390 gr. skagit and a 65 gr tip I have to slow down my casting stroke considerably and even though my line is heavier I don't gain any casting distance because of the slower stroke. MMMM some light are coming on slowly ,I'm going to have to ponder this some more.
Bjay
Based on what you say you like on your little DC, you'll be banging the reel at 140+ with a 15' 7/9 HCX.
Sounds to me like you wrung out that DC pretty well; 120' is about the best I got from it too, but I preferred a 420 compact for drylining. Pretty damned good for a single modulus rod!
If you go to the Clave to try rods maybe I'll see you. I'll be the skinny guy in a kilt.:grin2:
 
#23 ·
I have cast about 700gr line heads using a TCR 12'9'' 9wt and a custom which was originally a Shakespeare Expedition 15ft 11wt 6pc travel rod which I made 12'6'' 5pc building a new handle to the second section. Casting effort is about the same what is when casting 500gr line using 15ft rod but heavier line shoots longer. Although the launch speed is slower the line energy might become higher but definitely the relative air drag becomes lower. This is more noticeable when it is windy. That Expedition custon is what I use when salt water Spey casting where wind is often bigger issue than when fishing rivers and also because SW flyes often are bigger than Salmon flyes where higher line weight is better.

However when rods slowly keep advancing, their stiffness/weight ratios increase and also blanks get thinner. Then the proportional line weight increase while blank moment of inertia lowers and also the blank air drag lessens and line speed/energy increase and we casters don't have to change anything, just enjoy the results.

Esa
 
#25 ·
In my humble opinion, I would not discount a 15' rod so quickly. You get used to the extra heft and swing weight quickly and they are fun to cast and fish.

Threads like this are what I love about this sport and this board. Please share with us when you do pull a fish from that far seam.
 
#26 ·
I agree that this has been one of my favourite posts in a long time. Exactly what draws me to this awesome forum.

And, I find I get the most effortless distance with a 15' 9wt rod and a Nextcast FF 70.....but that is a big stick for some folks and is not good for small fish. I'd try one step up from your deer creek - perhaps a 13-14' 6/7. But I am not as experienced as some of the others who have posted here, and you may have already figured out what is best.

Curious to here how you make out.
 
#27 ·
Columbia rainbows are not to be taken lightly and I take great joy in casting far here and hunting the big boys that live here. Believe me when I say you cannot cast far enough here on many runs :wink2:
 

Attachments

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top