Fly damaged rod on the power stroke. Why? - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Fly damaged rod on the power stroke. Why?

George Cook had his usual colorful way of calling it, when you do something wrong with your forward stroke, but the big weighted fly crashes into your rod doing damage. I remember George's colorful way with words, but I forgot what I did wrong, because sure enough, my Sculpzilla crashed into my rod on the way out and did some damage indeed. Lucky me it was an Echo glass spey rod - it's stronger by far than graphite, but still.

What exactly, technique-wise - did I do wrong?

I see virtue everywhere.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 03:27 PM
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Most likely you placed your anchor too close and when you initiated your forward stroke put lots of power to try and compensate. The fly follows the lines path and when your lines path passes too close to your rod then so does your fly.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 07:39 PM
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There are probably a number of ways to manage it, but you should START with the fact that your fly should be in FRONT and off to the side of you during the anchor- it will of course depend on exactly what you are trying to do (a little) but on average think at a 45 degree angle from the direction you are going to cast out in the river, and about a rod lenght or more away from you along that line. If you have placed your anchor correctlym there are still all kinds of embarrassing things you can do - you can hook your D loop behind you and smack yourself in the back with the line, or you can fire off your cast on a line that crosses your anchor line and tie a pretzel - but in most cases unless you blow your anchor you will not hit your rod or any tender body parts with the fly on the power stroke. On a bad snap T with a weighted fly, yes, you can do some serious damage.

So I'd say tend to your anchor first. The best way to do this it to actually look! You should be laser-focused on your anchor right up to the start of the power stroke. %80 of trouble issues, when not explicitly caused by your anchor position, can be decoded by looking at what is going on there, if you learn the signs. If there is any mystery about this when you cast its because you aren't actually looking. But the most imediate benefit may be that, if you are actually watching, you can stop and redo your cast before the power stroke when your anchor just as isnt right, and before you get more battle scars.

Also, don't cast big weighted flies until you know how to cast well enough, and are confident enough, so that this problem isnt even on the radar anymore would my advice.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 07:59 PM
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Drop the tip

Drop your rod tip down. Don't keep a high tip in your forward cast. If you watch Jerry French or ed ward they always drop that rod tip down. It gets the tip out of the way. You won't have the tightest of loops or the best looking cast. You will be fishing effective though. That's what's we are all trying to do.

Andrew
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 12:03 PM
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Simon Gawesworth uses the train track analogy to explain the relation between the anchor set and intended direction of cast. In other words - how the change of direction [in speycasting] is limited by where the anchor is set. The best way to become proactive or reactive with regards to casting i've found is to understand what Simon is getting across in his lectures/videos.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambest View Post
Drop your rod tip down. Don't keep a high tip in your forward cast. If you watch Jerry French or ed ward they always drop that rod tip down. It gets the tip out of the way. You won't have the tightest of loops or the best looking cast. You will be fishing effective though. That's what's we are all trying to do.

Andrew
I do this not by plan or from advice but by chance. It is how I cast and I've not hit a rod with a fly yet.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 03:54 AM
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Hitting Rod

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I do this not by plan or from advice but by chance. It is how I cast and I've not hit a rod with a fly yet.
Hey Hardyreels.....if you haven't hit the rod yet, ya aint tryin Ard unough..........

regards

Bevin

The more sophisticated the level of our knowledge is, the more effective we will be in dealing with the natural world.....The 14th Dalai Lama
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 09:04 AM
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When I was teaching Spey casting, this was rather common for new students.

My recommendation is to follow up immediately after the forward cast stop,,,,, move the rod tip to you center line about 4"-6" this will clear the rod tip out of the fly line and weighted fly path. A small movement of the rod tip after the stop will not affect the accuracy of the fly line and will prevent broken rod tips.

Dropping the rod tip down after the stop or making the stop at a low angle is another method to minimize this problem,,, it does not give you the most efficient cast or loop formation.

With the newer shorter Skagit lines it is rather difficult to form an efficient D loop with the placement of the fly 45 degrees and a rod length away from you position. Placing the fly slightly to your rear and close to your body will maximize the rod loading with little effort.

Regards,
FK
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 11:13 AM
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Yes, dropping the tip, smoothly but distinct and AFTER the hard stop, is a natural part of the cast and you learn this, almost without pointing to it too much, when casting a tight loop. "Side arming" a bit helps too. This helps prevents the line hitting itself and fly hitting the LINE further out when you are NOT lining up correctly. There is also the specialty open loop "flop" cast where there is a drop with no hard stop. But as fishon was pointing to, and style points aside, if your rod tips path is parallel but SHIFTED from the anchor line, as is one of the bare fundamentals of Spey casting, the line and/or fly will not hit anything anyway, even if you cast a tailing loop. Of course we all sometime (ok, most of the time) need the extra margin of error, especially when the consequences might be lead against graphite so in such case you should be casting with even more distance between the railroad tracks.

If you are casting a shorty skagit head then yeah you need to be extra careful with the lead! Otherwise if the fly is in front of you on the anchor, and even for a skagit compact with a 10' tip it still should be, you should not have this particular problem without a major fail, which would seemingly involve something like the D loop catching on the rod and having the fly literally get pulled backwards into your rod. Still in either case being more sensitive to the anchor/fly position/alignment AND to the alignment of the forward stroke parallel but shifted will reduce the issue to a bare minimum. Opening the loop in these ways, both vertically and horizontally when you are casting bullets is the way to go. At the very least if you are actually LOOKING for these alignment issues when you are casting there will be no mystery about the WHY.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 05:41 PM
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Thumbs up Fly damaging rod

Almost every time i visit the Taupo district in New Zealand i hear that awful sound of a big "Bomb" and as they call them there, slamming into the rod tip with guys using single hand chuck and duck style casting of nymphs and globugs..........makes me cringe every time i hear it.
I also see a few using the "Tongariro Roll Cast" which seems to help alleviate the problem a bit.
I still prefer to swing wets there though.
Great advise above though gents.

Bevin

The more sophisticated the level of our knowledge is, the more effective we will be in dealing with the natural world.....The 14th Dalai Lama

Last edited by tassiespey; 06-17-2017 at 05:44 PM. Reason: spelling
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 12:48 AM
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the biggest reason i see for people damaging their rods with flies is using flies too heavy for the line/rod combo they are using.
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