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more running line issues

4K views 22 replies 20 participants last post by  borano20 
#1 ·
I don't know what it is, but I seem to have a curse when it comes to running lines. I just haven't yet found one that's worked out well and held up. Admittedly, I've had a somewhat limited sampling of them but so far I'm coming up disappointed. My first running line was a Rio powerflex which fell appart in very short order, and seemed to tangle very easily (the tangles could also have been in part due to my lack of experience in managing them). Tried an Airflo ridge next and found it a big improvement in the tangles department, and overall really liked it. No complaints on that one, however subsequent ridge running lines have all failed prematurely on me. I think I'm now on the 5th line in about 2 years that has had the coating start to bunch up and separate from the core. I have tried the Opzt lazar running line, but to be honest I've found it to be more of a hassle to work with (some of the most wicked tangles I've ever had as well), though perhaps I might like it better in the heavier weights.

I am curious if others have had similar issues with their running lines separate. I'd spring the extra cash for the Rio Connect Core if I thought it would hold up better. I'm a bit hesitant to spend much on the running line at this point though, and I'm just about coming around to embrace full lines ...
Is it just me???
 
#2 ·
You may want to try a mono running line; these obviously don't have the problems with core & coating separation, but as a 'test' you could try out Sunset Amnesia in 40lb strength, or, if you could get some, some Penn Shock leader in 40 or 50lb. I have used both these, and also the Sawada flat beam mono. Slick shooter is also recommended by many.

Testing out mono as a running line can also work out quite cheaply, the main drawback being that mono is quite slick and therefore not as easy to handle in winter fishing situations.


Mike
 
#3 ·
Might be running line management issues as well? Does the running line ever touch rocks on shore? Are you imparting a twist in the line on every cast? Are you stretching the lines out before you fish with them?

I mostly use integrated running lines now, however when I did use a lot of heads I was partial to Monic GSP and more recently discovered Guideline Compline/Ken Sawada. The former had zero stretch which was nice to feel everything and the later has very good shootability and fantastic durability. Both would twist when I wasn't realizing my skagit casts were putting a twist in the line on every cast.
 
#5 ·
I don't know what it is, but I seem to have a curse when it comes to running lines.
[...]
Is it just me???
Yes, it's just you. Maybe you should fish less? :grin2:

Hmm, it does sound like you are awfully hard on running lines. Trying to speculate on possible causes:

Do you favor one particular cast, that would add twists rapidly? Do you untwist your lines regularly?

Is this mostly with one rod, or, lots of rods? Have you checked your tip section, it is unusually thin/sharp, or any other aspect that might cause premature wear? What is the angle of your rod to the water when you strip line in?

Do you leave your lines in the car in the valley sun? Does your cat have access to them?
 
#6 ·
Wow, you've gone through a lot of running lines in a short time. I think the main culprit here is probably twist. Twist will cause tangles as well as all kinds of funky damage to your line. The best way to avoid twist is to vary your casts throughout the day, or better yet in each run. If you can occasionally switch your casts from an upstream anchor to a downstream anchor if the wind allows or even just switch from something like a single spey to a snap T to a perry poke if wind keeps you casting off your upstream shoulder, you can avoid a lot of twist. I don't know if this will solve your tangling and self destructing running line problems, but it has worked well for me and my running lines have lasted for years with no issues like you have had.
 
#7 ·
Maybe the problem started with the way you spooled the running lines on to the reel. If your fly reel is perpendicular with the running line spool then you'll immediately have twists. Doing the same repetitive casts will give you twists, and repeatedly not shooting all of your peeled running line can introduce twist as well.
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the feedback and the suggestions. One point to be clear on, the twists and tangles aren't really my main concern. I have had more issues at times with that, mostly when hip deep in swift waters and trying to shoot a lot of line. The thing that has me concerned is the line falling apart (the ridge lines that is). In seeking to replace them I've been in a bit of an uncertain mind; as so far nothing really stands out of the pack for me. I don't think I've been overly hard on them, though they are certainly not babied either (I do like to fish!). Had one of them warranted, but showing the lines to a few shops had everyone perplexed, when I asked if there was something in my casting that could lead to such damage the responses were unanimous in saying no. Dunno? Sounds like some others have had some issues with both Rio and Airflo, but no one I've heard from has had so many go south.

I'm hoping to stop by the shop tomorrow, and if I hear anything new I'll share it here.
Cheers,
JB
 
#17 ·
Ive had problems with two Airflo Ridge running lines before: They split right along the ridges - lengthwise from the loop back. As much as ten feet on the first one then again with the warranty-replacement in the same way and area, so Ive stopped using them. Now I have SGS's MendMaster or running lines cut out of Delta spey lines. This sort of wear-tear has gone away since and I only deal with the usual cracks at the loops. Not that Ive ever experienced twist as a result of casting or stripping line, but MendMaster is nice-n-thick towards the front. I'd imagine it would resist twisting and help those who encounter such a problem. How far do you need to shoot??? If Airflo ridged lines do it for you then ordinary plastic-coated lines will certainly do also.

I am sorry, but swivels in a fly-line are only an easy way to avoid dealing with and then correcting what is causing twists in the first place. Swivels are only useful down below the body of a line, where they don't go past the tip-top, and if they are used to prevent a leader from twisting - then I'd suspect the fly and how it is dressed. I doubt it could ever get bad enough this way to twist the heavy body section of a line and into the running section, but I don't know. I could be wrong.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Jason, when I first started casting I had the twist problem, very badly and obviously, but it mysteriously went away almost entirely after about 6 month of practice. I'm not sure about the durability problem. That has not been my experience with the airflo ridge lines. The twist, if bad enough might be causing the durability issue, especially it the problem gets escalated to serious knots. I can't imagine how the durability issue would arise otherwise, unless you have to regularly yank it out from under a rock or are fishing in a fumarole, but that doesn't mean there isn't a way. But I suspect the issue may be connected.

As I mentioned, twists were a major issue for me once. I mostly use airflo ridge running lines as my favorite, but have tried many others. While I think maybe some lines might lend themselves more easily to getting twisted, I'd say it is a symptom of you and not of the line. The ultimate solution for "the twists" is going to be casting style and "line maintenance", and probably not in finding a new running line. The new running line thing never really helped with me, and the fact that many, if not most, people using the airflo ridge don't have the problem you are talking about does seem to strongly indicate it is not the line per se. OTOH, switching to a solid shooting line like mono will by default get rid of the separation problem. :)

Your problem might not be twist, but I agree with some above that it might be. The twists will definitely lead eventually to tangles (and maybe even the separation from the core you experienced) as the line twists over itself. I do know that if you twist a flexible solid cylinder it will create shear forces between inner and outer layers. Why twists happen - short answer is I don't know. At various time I have heard, or figured out the following (full disclosure I have a PhD in Physics and I still don't fully understand it):

(1) Certain spey casts apply a net torque to the line. (2) When some people strip in they unconsciously apply torque to the line - check and see if you rotate your hand when doing this. The twist get trapped behind the stripping guide and eventually chaos ensues. (3) One of my instructor's opinion is that twists can come from the motion of the rod tip in the air together with the friction on the water as you strip in. He believes if you strip in with your tip in the water (also a sign that you are a bad-assed "serious" spey caster, according to him) then this will get rid of the twisting. (4) If by chance you practice on still water then that will increase the problem ten-fold - the reason being that both the avoidable and unavoidable twists in the line should work themselves out on the swing if all your running line is out and your rod is pointed directly at the line. Was a big one for me once, but the still water part doesn't sound like the issue in your case. If you line is still has a net twist after the swing and stripping in then of course when you rinse and repeat thing are going to get worse. But the issue resolves itself as long as all the accumulated twist untwists by the end of a swing. If you leave a net twist on the reel when you go home I suspect this might also have a cumulative effect in the line durability over time as well.

I'm sure on here we could add at least 1/2 a dozen more of these theories from other folks without trying hard. How did I get rid of them - not completely sure. I implemented attempted fixes for all of the above theories, and about that time I also started systematically making loops of running line in my left hand - line management. I realize this is a bit like the famous far side cartoon where the scientists are looking at a chalk board with the problem on one side, and the answer on the other- in the middle are the words "and here a miracle happens".

I do know that when my twist went away, my tangles went away too. If the tangles are causing the durability issues then maybe that is something to look at. But I could be completely off here.
 
#11 ·
Like Botsari says It could be the way you are handling the line. Try Airflo's Miracle Braid. I have it on my reels and I fish almost every night all spring, summer and fall for 4 years now and it is just starting to look rough. Some say it hinders casting distance but I cast 80 to 90 feet, plus leader, with a 5/6 -12ft 6 inch rod deer creek rod with no problem.
Bjay
 
#12 ·
Just a thought, you haven't got a damaged guide/ ring on the rod have you? the worst is a cracked ceramic liner as this can wreck a line in short order.

Similarly inspect any line guides etc on the reel & for any coils of line catching equipment such as landing net zingers, wading stall clips etc when you shoot line.

My personal favourite is with a sinking running line when I accidentally tap dance on it whilst wading over rock; with new cold cutters fitted that can just slice it in two.

These seem obvious, but at some point or other I've sufferred from all of them; so it's worth checking guides [particularly the lined ones] with a magnifying glass every so often [especially if you are experiencing excessive wear problems] to ensure this isn't the cause.

Regards, Tyke.
 
#13 ·
Jason. Where on the running line is the coating bunching up and separating from the core. Is it in the same area on all of the lines. Is it behind the factory loop, where you normally place your overhang on each cast.

I've been using Ridge running lines since they were first introduced. Both for my single hand, striper fishing, and two hand. In that time I had one wear out, and separate behind the factory loop. I also had one show some wear in the same area. Both were on my single hand, striper setups, and both saw very heavy(lots of hours with 30' of T14) use. No issues with my spey setups, but they don't see the same amount of use.

briansII
 
#15 ·
That sounds very similar to my experience with shooting lines. I really feel if one fishes hard and/or has an unorthodox style that is actually useful for ones own waters, said angler will eventually wear holes in stuff.......sometimes in ones own skin:mad:. Wear points seem unavoidable in my reality. I am so often cutting back and re-looping all types of lines in efforts to repair damage. It gives everything that custom feel.;) I won't try to brag about throwing a line to the backing because most my shooters end up half as long as they started.
 
#18 · (Edited)
The easiest way to eliminate line twist is to use these plastic swivels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00E0qcL8LAY
I have a buddy that uses those sometime on his spey rods. He puts them in his leader. You might be right if you could put them between the running line and the head. I'd personally have a big problem with that - I've seen them up close. Otherwise you might not get at the cause of twists. Humm, but if it is not for prevention, but for maintenance....In the leader I guess it would leave out a lot of friction due to the fly, so maybe the speed of the untwisting on the swing would be greater. If you are using a weighted fly, especially one with dumbell eyes that doesn't want to flip then that could be pretty huge...might be a good idea.. even if only for an experiment!

On the other hand, the majority of people seem to not have the twist problem, so it might be more elegant and economical to figure out why first. Also, as Obi Wan Kenobi would say say about blasters (or bobber fishing I'd assume) - so uncivilized!

Yeah, its true if Jason really fishs hard, and in tough circumstances, then having to replace his shooting line may be the cost of doing business. Still 5 in 2 years (isn't that what he said?) does seem like a lot. But if he fishes every day maybe not.
 
#19 ·
Durability of the running lines.

If you strip line from the reel at a right angle (90 degrees) to the rod cork,,,, you are prematurely wearing the line. I have seen this many times with trout FF and SH rods/reels.

The line should be stripped from the reel straight down the rod blank. Amazing how the worn out coating problems go away.

Regards,
FK
 
#20 ·
Thanks again for the thoughts and feedback. Thankfully the shop handled the warranty no problem, and a few folks I've talked to have had similar issues with their running lines too. I don't think that twisting was really the culprit, though I do get some wicked twists/tangles on occasion. Things like stepping on the running line by accident certainly have happened once or twice, and I do think that the suggestion about how to strip line off seems key. I did double check ALL the guides on our switch and spey rods just to be sure, and they are all fine. I did end up trying the Rio connect core, which I know some folks have had issue with as well: so far so good for me. Have to say that I am a fan so far, of course brand new running lines are usually a little nicer to work with too.

Cheers,
JB
 
#21 · (Edited)
David1123

Have you tried Berkley Big Game, its dirt cheap. If you do anything to damage it you just put another 50 cents worth on your reel. I've been comparing it to the new OPST running line. To me one works about as good as the other. I hear people say you have to stretch Berkley Big Game prier to use, I never do. I just take the spool out of my reel and soak it in some water for about a half hour before I go fishing, this takes the coils right out and for me it stays coil free for several days. If you want you can put a little dry fly dressing on it to make it slicker. If you have any problems with twisting every now and then do an overhead cast, just make sure you shoot all of the line that you've pulled off your reel until it comes to an abrupt stop. Not shooting all your line out completely can cause coiling.
 
#23 ·
Hello.. I´ve used the 30lbs Ridge Line this past season, must say it´s a good line, shoots well, very few tangles. BUT, if it tangles, I´m always VEERY careful when I undo any knots. I wasn´t with the first one, and soon it separated for 6". The second one, as used now, has serviced well. That´s the one I welded to my #8 SSVT head, and if you think about the same poeration, ensure that the weld is up towards 4" long. I didn´t, and had a running line core slip on a snag. Luckily, I managed to recover the head. So, I figure these experiences shows that these line DO have a weak bond between core and coating, and I´m sure I´m not the only one who thinks so?? Yours borano20
 
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