First fish on 2-hander!!!! - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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First fish on 2-hander!!!!

Casting a wooly bigger out today on Lake Michigan shoreline right below the Mackinac Bridge, and lo and behold ....... big bite!

It was a hhhuuuuuggggeeeee Carp man! I left my phone in the van, but it had to be 30lbs! Bigger than any King Salmon I've cought. My SpeyCo reel fought that beast no problemo. I'm actually seeing the advantage of click pawl reels......no start up inertia and total control on the drag = no broken tippet, and the most responsive drag you can get........YOU

Also,
I've read a lot of conflicting ideas on whether longer rods fight fish better or not. And one thing that is often totally neglected in the discussion is that it totally depends on whether or not you are stronger than the fish! In other words, a longer lever on a fish that you are stronger than gives you the advantage, not the fish!

All I know is this: I've fought 15lb fish on my singlehand 8wt rod and I couldn't even stop them! Literally jogging down the river

Fast forward to a 12'8" 7wt Spey rod, and the stick completely owned a fish that was 30lb!! My friend completely shattered a 6wt singlehander on a Carp of similar size.

I'm sold on Spey fishing! I'll fish for anything.......as long as it is with a 2-handed ����

You make known to me the path of life;
in your presence there is fullness of joy;
at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

PSALM 16:11

Last edited by Yooper-Fly; 05-17-2017 at 09:55 PM.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 05:55 PM
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30# fish on your first two hander? Hang it up, buddy. You're spoiled. Carp or not! Sometimes they don't get the credit they deserve but they can be sporty.
And you're right about the leverage gained on a two-hander which is why many folks fish year-round with a 7wt or less.
I've caught salmon on my 5/6 spey without trouble. Click and Pawl, too.
Congrats!
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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I know people with think I am telling a 'fishy' tale �� when I say 30lbs, but it's totally true!

I'm not that great of a fisherman, and don't always catch a lot of fish (although I'm new to the Spey game so maybe that will all change ) biggest one I've landed on a fly rod was about a 12-15lb King.

Carp are fun, and I would feel totally confident fishing for Kings with that 7wt.

You make known to me the path of life;
in your presence there is fullness of joy;
at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

PSALM 16:11
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 11:51 PM
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What fly did you use? Did you swing, or cast and retrieve?

Carp are not that easy to get on a fly from my experience.

Good job!
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 05:13 AM
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Love your style Mate, Just gotta love that attitude. Congratulations old son! Now go do it again, and again...... for an entire lifetime if you wish. Welcome to addiction. Cheers....Jimmy
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 08:01 AM
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Congrats on the fish. I love to catch carp, though I usually sight fish for them with a 9' 8 wt.

About the fight with a long rod, well the longer the rod, the less pressure it puts on a fish. This is very easy to demonstrate with a scale. I've done this test more than once and the results are consistent, a single hander puts more pressure on the fish than a two-hander of the same line weight and the differential is roughly the ratio of their lengths.

However, a two hander is easier for the angler because he is using two hands! The two-hander allows the angler to place his top hand far up the blank, which improves the effectiveness of the lever from his perspective, and that is the reason why the fight on a two-hander is easier for the angler to manage.

A fishing rod is a class 2 lever where the fulcrum is the butt of the rod when it is stuck in our gut. However, a two-hander can turn into a class 1 lever if we use our top hand as the fulcrum. A class 1 lever is more effective than a class 2.

BTW, this difference between class 1 and class 2 levers also explains why using our bottom hand to apply the casting power works better than when using the top hand. Same is true when sweeping a long belly line into the backcast.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar View Post
What fly did you use? Did you swing, or cast and retrieve?

Carp are not that easy to get on a fly from my experience.

Good job!
Black wooly bugger.

Standing out in Lake Michigan, so not much swinging happening! Just was using a modified poke style cast (friggin' love the perry poke!) and letting the bugger soak in the current for a minute, then retrieving with a jiggle as I prepared to cast again.

Fish bit the fly (didn't even feel the Carp take it) while it was soaking out in the water. I went to strip in and cast and thought I had snagged a boulder or something. That's when I saw the big golden brown back!!

Using a Scandi compact with a poly leader for gentle presentation.

That's all I got 👍🏻
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You make known to me the path of life;
in your presence there is fullness of joy;
at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

PSALM 16:11
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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Congrats on the fish. I love to catch carp, though I usually sight fish for them with a 9' 8 wt.

About the fight with a long rod, well the longer the rod, the less pressure it puts on a fish. This is very easy to demonstrate with a scale. I've done this test more than once and the results are consistent, a single hander puts more pressure on the fish than a two-hander of the same line weight and the differential is roughly the ratio of their lengths.

However, a two hander is easier for the angler because he is using two hands! The two-hander allows the angler to place his top hand far up the blank, which improves the effectiveness of the lever from his perspective, and that is the reason why the fight on a two-hander is easier for the angler to manage.

A fishing rod is a class 2 lever where the fulcrum is the butt of the rod when it is stuck in our gut. However, a two-hander can turn into a class 1 lever if we use our top hand as the fulcrum. A class 1 lever is more effective than a class 2.

BTW, this difference between class 1 and class 2 levers also explains why using our bottom hand to apply the casting power works better than when using the top hand. Same is true when sweeping a long belly line into the backcast.

Thanks Peter.

Are you saying that the 2 hander is a more effective fulcrum when you have your top hand all the way up on the cork??

I just don't think I could have landed that fish that well on my singlehander as effective as my Spey rod. I've used my 9' 8wt on fish half the size, and battled them twice as long. I'm not denying the data you have presented, I guess I just feel more confident with that 2hander!!

Thanks again

You make known to me the path of life;
in your presence there is fullness of joy;
at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

PSALM 16:11
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Yooper-Fly View Post
Thanks Peter.

Are you saying that the 2 hander is a more effective fulcrum when you have your top hand all the way up on the cork??
Yup, the spacing of our hands on the handle of a two hander changes the effectiveness of the lever from the angler's perspective. The pressure on the fish remains the same. The last time I ran this test was before my Loomis days and I compared an old Diamondback Saltwater 9' 10 wt. to a Mackenzie 15' 10 wt. The 9' Diamondback pulled 3 lbs. while the 15' Mackenzie pulled 1.6 to 1.7 lbs. The strain on me was way higher with the Diamondback vs. the Mackenzie.

BTW, think of the times we see people fishing single handers who have hooked a big fish and they grab the blank a couple of feet above the reel to fight the fish. They do it to gain leverage and fight the fish with two hands instead of one. This use of the second hand on the blank changes the rod from a class 2 to a class 1 lever which significantly reduces the effort required by the angler. Same thing for a two handed rod.

Quote:

I just don't think I could have landed that fish that well on my singlehander as effective as my Spey rod. I've used my 9' 8wt on fish half the size, and battled them twice as long. I'm not denying the data you have presented, I guess I just feel more confident with that 2hander!!

Thanks again
I've landed a 40 lb. carp on a 9' 8 wt. so I know what you mean.

Yup, it would be easier to fight the fish with a two hander, but at the same time the two-hander puts less pressure on the fish.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 11:58 PM
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I am envious. One day I will follow in your footsteps but replace 30# fish with hopefully a 5# fish.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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I am envious. One day I will follow in your footsteps but replace 30# fish with hopefully a 5# fish.
Fenix,
If I can do it, anybody can

You make known to me the path of life;
in your presence there is fullness of joy;
at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

PSALM 16:11
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 05:05 PM
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Re: two handers vs. single handed fly rods for leverage, pulling power etc. I would have thought that depends on the taper of the rod (made of any material) plus (importantly) the angle (height) of the rod when the pressure would be applied by the angler. As the rod is raised and bends into a fish, the rod tip and mid section absorbes the strain of both the angler and the fish, protecting the line, little would be registered if a scale were attached. Lower the rod and the butt takes over, by-passing the tip. Raise it a little higher and the mid section provides some shock protection. This is a tactic often when double handed bamboo rods are used as they can be damaged otherwise. A low rod can put tremendous pressure on a fish.

Carp are often fished for with 10' plus coarse rods in the UK, the length is required to cast out the bait. The length is also important in controlling a fast running fish, applying side strain etc. The benefit of longer rods is in casting and line control, not as mere levers for excerting a pull to bring the fish in. Short stiff rods are often used in sea fishing of course where lowering a bait from the boat and pulling in the (hopefully) large fish. In both styles mentioned 'pumping' the rod then retreiving the line is preferred. Shorter (7'6") muskie rods need to be a compromise as they will need to have the 'leverage' and flex in order to sling out that heavy bait, yet have enough stiffness to hold a fish hard,to both set the hooks and dominate the frantic fight.

Fishing rods are not 'static' levers as there are many elements at play. There has been considerable debate about this over at Clarks Bamboo Forum when the subject of hollowing comes up. Some come up with complicated engineering principles which may or may not be applicable for both a natural material and a flexible fishing rod.

Malcolm

Last edited by MHC; 05-18-2017 at 07:25 PM.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 03:57 AM
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A carp on a two hander - I'm jealous, and have a new addition to my bucket list!
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHC View Post
Fishing rods are not 'static' levers as there are many elements at play. There has been considerable debate about this over at Clarks Bamboo Forum when the subject of hollowing comes up. Some come up with complicated engineering principles which may or may not be applicable for both a natural material and a flexible fishing rod.

Malcolm
Agreed, just didn't want to turn this into a doctoral dissertation on the subject. The basics of the types of levers is sufficient for this discussion. This much holds true: while there are other elements in the mix as you have pointed out, they are still levers. That part doesn't go away.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 08:48 AM
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With respect, I think that 'levers' are rigid, Peter. I don't think that they dissipate or store energy, as fishing rods tend to do.
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